Ff you could have one thing in the next update it would be…
-
They could add 3 options to choose from:
-Launchers always misaligned (need BSGT).
-Launchers only misaligned if your previous flight had different launchers/weapons loadout on certain pylons. This would simulate simply adding MAVs on the already loaded and boresighted launchers.
-Launchers always aligned (no need for BSGT).I personally never had issues with BSGT and i never complained about MAVs in 4.33. I was happy to see realistic MAVs when 4.33 came out.
Those 3 options, and Mortesil’s suggestions, would be very nice to have indeed if we can’t get the BSGT done on the ground in a future version. I don’t have issues with Mavericks too, but as a virtual instructor in our French fighter school (École de Chasse) I can’t help noticing how many players have issues with the BSGT process.
-
what is the problem with ground bsgt…? it is a matter of time and target… irl there are plenty of targets for the tgp to lock and mav to bsgt… bsgt procedure is fine… it is the lack of targets to point track on the airfield that is my problem…
-
Hi Wild!
Those 3 options, and Mortesil’s suggestions, would be very nice to have indeed if we can’t get the BSGT done on the ground in a future version. I don’t have issues with Mavericks too, but as a virtual instructor in our French fighter school (École de Chasse) I can’t help noticing how many players have issues with the BSGT process.
I do not really see where could be the problem with Mav boresight process (?) It is somehow similar to GBU and laser employment … Just “need” to plan a waypoint on a bridge of any other significant atrificial lanmark to place the TGP on it , sabilize , switch SOI , slide the Mav cross on the landmark then press BGST. Then the same for the other pylon.
Why does it gives “headache” ?
-
I agree. Having to go through the boresighting process without being able to do it on the ground makes it even more difficult than in real life.
Not exactly. In rl we boresight initially on the ground at the leak check area 10 minutes before take off, usually on the tower or beacon light which both are somewhere in the middle of a base and normally within fov’s. If time or anything else is an issue another boresight will attempted against a known ground static object on the way to the objective.
A simple option enabling players to skip the boresighting process altogether if they wish to do so would be fine. As it is now, the system creates a lot of headaches, and a lot of irritation for many players as well.
Most ppl request more and more things to this tittle, new systems, new functionalities… Now this would be a truly 2 steps back…
Knowledge comes with Reading TFM, practice and practice again. There are some good videos up too to demonstrate the process.
Just to note, in Ikaros theater we improved the db increasing the ground objects that can be point-trackable with a tgp, so now more objects are available to track and attempt a handoff.
But most important thing is, plan before takeoff and into your briefing where EXACTLY you will attempt the boresight procedure on the air. You need a specific target building etc, that should also be tested before that it is point-trackable and can be used, and don’t search for “targets of opportunity” while going to your objective to boresight. Most of the times there opportunity targets are so close that do not permit quickly boresighting both missiles, and/or will not forgive any pilot mistakes in case he is a bit slow or unsure…
The overall HOTAS switchology to perform the boresight for 2 missiles is the most advanced process applied in the controls, you will have to master each and every action at any time knowing exactly what is going on every second.
-
Not exactly. In rl we boresight initially on the ground at the leak check area 10 minutes before take off, usually on the tower or beacon light which both are somewhere in the middle of a base and normally within fov’s. If time or anything else is an issue another boresight will attempted against a known ground static object on the way to the objective.
Most ppl request more and more things to this tittle, new systems, new functionalities… Now this would be a truly 2 steps back…
Knowledge comes with Reading TFM, practice and practice again. There are some good videos up too to demonstrate the process.
Just to note, in Ikaros theater we improved the db increasing the ground objects that can be point-trackable with a tgp, so now more objects are available to track and attempt a handoff.
But most important thing is, plan before takeoff and into your briefing where EXACTLY you will attempt the boresight procedure on the air. You need a specific target building etc, that should also be tested before that it is point-trackable and can be used, and don’t search for “targets of opportunity” while going to your objective to boresight. Most of the times there opportunity targets are so close that do not permit quickly boresighting both missiles, and/or will not forgive any pilot mistakes in case he is a bit slow or unsure…
The overall HOTAS switchology to perform the boresight for 2 missiles is the most advanced process applied in the controls, you will have to master each and every action at any time knowing exactly what is going on every second.
I was of the understanding that a ground boresight process is still complemented by a second inflight boresight to ‘fine tune’ the boresight.
I remember when learning the boresighting; it felt like a million steps to learn. Now, and whilst I’m still not the quickets in the flight to complete, it’s like second nature.
As you say, removing this feature is utterly pointless, and would undo hundreds of hours of work just to make the sim less realistic.
-
Hi Wild!
I do not really see where could be the problem with Mav boresight process (?) It is somehow similar to GBU and laser employment … Just “need” to plan a waypoint on a bridge of any other significant atrificial lanmark to place the TGP on it , sabilize , switch SOI , slide the Mav cross on the landmark then press BGST. Then the same for the other pylon.
Why does it gives “headache” ?
+1
Sent from my F3213 using Tapatalk
-
I think that many ppl still want to use the Mav as they were used to do it before 4.33 … now they realize what the Mav really is … and some of them would like their favorite easy weapon back … Fact is that Mav are very limited for many reasons and not so practical. Now Mav needs a meticulous mission planing.
I wonder why IRL those missiles are almost no more used today (?)
-
I was of the understanding that a ground boresight process is still complemented by a second inflight boresight to ‘fine tune’ the boresight.
Not necessary, if you successfully boresight the missile once, it stays there ready and operational, IIRC until mmc power cycle.
and would undo hundreds of hours of work just to make the sim less realistic.
I would say for 1 hour of coding is 10 hours of deeeeep research…
-
Fact is that Mav are very limited for many reasons and not so practical.
I wonder why IRL those missiles are almost no more used today (?)
Well not entirely accurate…
The missile specially on the G version is pretty great. Very few weapons can be of an alternative, and these goes by 1) country (some users might not have the arsenal alternative for the mission), 2) by cost (no need to send a 2 million JASSM if you can destroy the target with 1/5 of the price), and 3) by launcher survival-ability (weapon max range to keep shooter away of SAM etc). So depending the country they are normally used here, Greece, Turkey, Poland. Consider that Turkey also has SLAM-ER, Popeye, SOM, while Polland JASSM, and they both keep their G variants operational.
-
You can use the maverick in vis visual mode with the wpn weapon page which is pretty easy, so I don’t really see an issue. Agree with Raptor there’s no point making the sim less realistic, as long as it works has no bugs if that’s how it works IRL then that’s how it should be my 2c.
-
Have in mind that using the missile by it own basic modes without a tgp is not the best option for a strike since the limited sensor zoom of the missile will tight you to targets 2-3 miles away at the most, compared with the 10 plus that will give you the tgp zoom. So operational / survival constrains also apply to the math.
-
2-3 miles what do you mean? I seem to be able to lock targets in vis mode outside the max range of the maverick at about 10-12nm. Sure I know the TGP zooms in more but I find it easier to use the vis mode, probably just used to that way from other sims. I mainly use the TPG for laser and GPS guided weapons not so much the maverick.
I’ve also found the range bar for the maverick and jsow if you shoot at max range it’s a bit too far and the weapons run out of speed and don’t hit, so you need to be well within the range bar for those 2.
-
Missile maximum range and human eye ability to spot a ground target in a distance are 2 different things.
-
yeah, but you can always use the missile as a poor mans TGP. Done that in BMS before… and at least one pilot has written about doing so.
-
yeah, but you can always use the missile as a poor mans TGP. Done that in BMS before… and at least one pilot has written about doing so.
Interesting idea. Could they cue other weapons from it by using it to set SPI?
-
yeah, but you can always use the missile as a poor mans TGP. Done that in BMS before… and at least one pilot has written about doing so.
Yes you can use the maverick weapon display to spot targets and lock them up, I find it quite effective if you know the general area of targets. Or if you know the exact position of your target you can put your waypoint on it in the mission planner. I find it’s quick and easy.
-
Set up a few TEs and got pretty good at the procedure, can still launch 3 to 5 on a good day like you could with the old method……but don’t remember the last time I used on in a campaign.
RE above that is apparently what several jets in Desert Storm were doing with the AGM-65D like the A-10A for example…gave it an accurate night attack capability just using the missile IR view.
-
Interesting idea. Could they cue other weapons from it by using it to set SPI?
IIRC it can be done in DCS A-10C when MAV is in SENSOR mode (you have different weapon selected and you use MAV MFD page much like TGP). You need SPI on MAV page and MAV camera locked on target. However i never tried this method.
Also in older versions you could use hidden laser maverick (a little loadout editing needed to carry one) as laser spot tracker when you had no TGP.In F-16 it is not possible as when you select different weapon you loose MAV picture on WPN page.
-
Interesting idea. Could they cue other weapons from it by using it to set SPI?
Not in the F-16 because slewing the maverick seeker does not slew SPI. This is modelled in BMS. Your LMS indicator for range is based on range to the SPI, whereas if you slew the seeker off the SPI significantly, it may not represent the actual range of the missile adequately.
-
Hi Wild!
I do not really see where could be the problem with Mav boresight process (?) It is somehow similar to GBU and laser employment … Just “need” to plan a waypoint on a bridge of any other significant atrificial lanmark to place the TGP on it , sabilize , switch SOI , slide the Mav cross on the landmark then press BGST. Then the same for the other pylon.
Why does it gives “headache” ?
It’s not similar to laser employment for most people.
If you want to lase something, you just have to find it on the TGP screen, then press TMS UP. If it doesn’t work, well you can TMS UP the hell of it until you get a good track. No big deal.
To get the BSGT process done, you need to find something on the TGP (which means you need a good planning), make sure it’s POINT TRACKable, make sure it’s not too far away for the Maverick seeker or remember not to care about the caution light and sound, then not forget to DMS down, move the seeker head onto the right target, TMS UP, press BSGT, remember to use the right button to switch to the other Maverick station, then move its seeker and press BSGT again. Not even taking into account that you have to do it all in time (before the target is too close) or you have to repeat the whole process from the start.It is definitely more complicated.
Now don’t get me wrong : I can totally do it, and plan ahead for proper timing. I have more than 2 000 “flight” hours in Falcon 4.0 (probably 3 000-odd, but I didn’t keep my old logbooks), and I actually wrote the French document about how to deal with the “new” Mavericks, as you know.
Still, guys like Raptor, Red Dog, you and I are not the majority of players.
When I found out, I was actually surprised by the number of people who use the Mavericks but choose not to go through the BSGT procedure because, precisely, they feel it’s a pain in the a$$. So an option to be able to skip that tiny part of the game procedures would make the game more profitable for them, without taking something from other players.EDIT : The great number of threads created about that particular matter on this very forum may work as an indication of how many players have trouble with it.