How long did it take you to learn AAR?

[viperocky]

I’ve been practicing this everyday for 2 weeks now dedicating an hour or 2 just to this TE and I still haven’t made a single successful contact. I’ve gotten the boom operator to like my pre-contact position a couple of times and granting me permission to push into position though. It’s still a battle to get there and admittedly it still seems more like luck than skill at this point. Your videos all make it look so easy of getting up to the boom and then flying in. I have gotten quite adept at “kissing my career goodbye” in a variety of fashions however just before I flameout On the upside that’s A-A weapons employment training right there!

Practice as they say but how much practice does it generally require before one is behind the curve? What was the average, from when you first started trying, it took you to get your first successful refuel and then get good at it? 10 hours? 50 hours? 100 hours of practice?

[Raptor]

I think the last 18 years and still learning…

But maybe is just the boomer drinking problem…

[l3crusader]

Its not easy, that’s for sure

AAR is basically formation flying but behind and below the other AC, which is not an easy position to be in. I used to like doing the following : before going under the boom, rejoining the tanker in formation with the tanker wing, and staying there a bit. I found that helped remembering formation skills, which in turn helped the refuel. Maybe it can help you

[Raptor]

BTW, flying in the real sims with a shere projection -or even flat panels around- is much easier to keep in position, and ALL rl pilots confirmed that in rl is much easier than in sims.

Maybe Oculus Rift or other VR solution will assist here in the near future.

[Tomcat84]

Wiggle your toes to relax. Don’t grasp the controls too tightly. And fly the gun bore cross to the boom and then just keep going slowly and look at the director lights. When they go out stabilize. Remember:
Don’t Fck
Up A$$hle

Aka

Down Forward
Up Aft

That’s the lights

And keep practicing.

[PlayLoud]

I imagine G-forces would probably make real life a little easier also. A little more feedback to base your movements off of?

[lazystone]

I can’t remember how long I’ve tried until I connected the first time(s) successfully,
because it was years back on originally falcon4.

Today with BMS AAR is a little more harder, but way more realistic,
thanks to BMS coders, … and I stll love it.

BUT regardless if originally F4 or BMS, … once you have connected, saving that “picture” (cockpit view)
of your position relative to the tanker to your mind, … helps a lot.

So on every AAR after pre contact I simply fly to get the same “picture”
and according to the tankers lights.

Once you are used to the “picture”, AAR becomes way more easy.

There a many tips and tricks by one or another regarding AAR
which might be helpful, like using no (or small ?) deadzone on the stick for example.
… using the forum search might help here.

Cheers,
LS

[Mower]

Years.

[Korbi]

This Picturesaving mentioned by Lazy is very very effective. I just had problems with the KC-135 after I always trained with the KC-10.

Another Tip, Dee-Jay gave me once: Turn off your HUD and join the Tanker from an echelon left position after that get to precontact and contact. Turning off the HUD helps a lot and encreases the “feeling” for formation flying a lot, as you focus at your relative positon to the tanker and not to the speed/pitch/alt indications. Will help you in normal formation flying too.

[jhook]

I have found AAR to be difficult with keeping an eye on the tanker and boom at the same time. Also the jet wash from the tanker makes things a bit tricky with regards to stick input. I do have a suggestion. Perhaps have a “padlock” feature for refueling. The “padlock” focus is on the boom with retrospect to the underside of the tanker. You can keep an eye on the boom and the director lights simultaneously. Just a suggestion.

[fearless1]

@viperocky:

I’ve been practicing this everyday for 2 weeks now dedicating an hour or 2 just to this TE and I still haven’t made a single successful contact. I’ve gotten the boom operator to like my pre-contact position a couple of times and granting me permission to push into position though. It’s still a battle to get there and admittedly it still seems more like luck than skill at this point. Your videos all make it look so easy of getting up to the boom and then flying in. I have gotten quite adept at “kissing my career goodbye” in a variety of fashions however just before I flameout On the upside that’s A-A weapons employment training right there!

Practice as they say but how much practice does it generally require before one is behind the curve? What was the average, from when you first started trying, it took you to get your first successful refuel and then get good at it? 10 hours? 50 hours? 100 hours of practice?

Two hours over two weeks definitely not enough! Recommend you watch utube videos repeatedly to pick up the nuances and practice/learn with the HUD turned off. Just keep at it, you’ll eventually get it. The hook ups will become routine and you’ll have also mastered following the tanker around while its in a turn.

Next…flying ILS landing heads down instruments only and/or in bad weather!

F1

[Redshift20]

The biggest thing to remember that around the tanker EVERYTHING is relative to what you’re doing. He’s flying a known variable – 300 knots. From there all we need to do is fly relative airspeeds to position ourself around the tanker. 305 knots we are closing and 295 knots we increase spacing. Approx 2 knots closure is really all you need to safely move from pre-contact to contact. Follow the director lights forward and finally once they go blank you are in position. Hold position and fly smoothly. The hard part is now over.

Now all you have to do is let the boomer connect to you!! This is the most important part. Most think of AAR in terms of connecting to the boom when the reality is the boom connects to you! So once you’re in position stay there and let the boomer do his job.

If you flip your mindset in this regard you’ll find that refueling the F-16 aerially is ultimately really not that hard. Finally there is no replacement for stick time so get out there and keeping practicing! Falcon is a marathon not a race. Savor the learning it’s so rewarding.

[Boxer]

I do AAR less these days since the code is pretty stable at this point and I haven’t messed with it for a while (hmm, perhaps I should just to give all the experts some new challenge ;)). Nonetheless, I still think I probably have more AAR hours in Falcon than anyone else on the planet. Giving tips is hard though…what works for some doesn’t work for others judging by my conversations with people working on AAR proficiency.

FWIW, the things that help me most are: ignoring the boom completely once past clearance to contact and trying to stay relaxed and trusting my eyes will translate to what my hands do. I maintain soft focus on the tanker fuselage, engine nacelles and the PDI lights and just try to keep the overall picture I see of these relative to each other the same once in position. If you don’t know what that should look like, let CombatAP fly an AAR for you – it does a pretty good job of driving you to all the right places for AAR and you can memorize and try to replicate what it does when you are in control…master that and AAR is a snap. Best tip I got on staying relaxed was from a USAF pilot with actual AAR experience: wiggle fingers and toes regularly throughout the evolution…it’s practically impossible to have your arms and hands be tense if you do that and relaxed shoulders, arms and hands let your eyes be in charge of inputs to throttle and stick.

[b_bong12]

just try to remember the closure speed difference that is mentioned on the AAR manual(bms/docs) and will get easy peasy

[lazystone]

@Boxer:

I do AAR less these days since the code is pretty stable at this point and I haven’t messed with it for a while (hmm, perhaps I should just to give all the experts some new challenge ;)).

Probe-and-drogue air-to-air refueling system including wind/turbulence effects on the basket ?

Mark, do you remember when you told me to thank you later for the new (4.32) AAR code?

Like I said above, I still love it , so thank you for rewriting it.

Cheers,
LS

[Jetlag]

Takes continual practice to minimise hook up time - as has been mentioned in other texts, Korea theatre does not always necessitate tanking so perhaps needs Training TE regularly instead of relying on it may come up in Mission TE or Campaign. What comes up time and again though is SMALL adjustment of joystick and throttle - perhaps try using fingertips only for movement instead of grasping with hand - smaller movements become easier that way.

[Mav-jp]

@Boxer:

I do AAR less these days since the code is pretty stable at this point and I haven’t messed with it for a while (hmm, perhaps I should just to give all the experts some new challenge ;)). Nonetheless, I still think I probably have more AAR hours in Falcon than anyone else on the planet. Giving tips is hard though…what works for some doesn’t work for others judging by my conversations with people working on AAR proficiency.

FWIW, the things that help me most are: ignoring the boom completely once past clearance to contact and trying to stay relaxed and trusting my eyes will translate to what my hands do. I maintain soft focus on the tanker fuselage, engine nacelles and the PDI lights and just try to keep the overall picture I see of these relative to each other the same once in position. If you don’t know what that should look like, let CombatAP fly an AAR for you – it does a pretty good job of driving you to all the right places for AAR and you can memorize and try to replicate what it does when you are in control…master that and AAR is a snap. Best tip I got on staying relaxed was from a USAF pilot with actual AAR experience: wiggle fingers and toes regularly throughout the evolution…it’s practically impossible to have your arms and hands be tense if you do that and relaxed shoulders, arms and hands let your eyes be in charge of inputs to throttle and stick.

well if you claim to be in first place for hours logged, i certainly get the second place

[Boxer]

@Mav-jp:

well if you claim to be in first place for hours logged, i certainly get the second place

No argument from me, Mr. Torsor!

[Redshift20]

@Boxer:

(hmm, perhaps I should just to give all the experts some new challenge ;)).

The only way from here is FWD

[Mav-jp]

@Redshift20:

The only way from here is FWD

should i remove the helper ?