How long did it take you to learn AAR?
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The boom is childs play compared to the basket…hope one day we can have that challenge.
BMS looks unlikely for now and I know its alot of work. Next in line might be DCSW Bug and CV ops bringing us the challenge of the basket.
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The boom is childs play compared to the basket…hope one day we can have that challenge.
BMS looks unlikely for now and I know its alot of work. Next in line might be DCSW Bug and CV ops bringing us the challenge of the basket.
dont tease me.
dcs is for babys -
I recommend first mastering flying solo but at 300 kts, 20,000ft on a fixed heading say 000 degs to get a feel for managing the jet in the fwd/back, up/down planes of geometry. Get familiar with adjusting engine power so you can add or subtract a knot or 2, and if you go up/down see how you have to compensate for gain/loss of speed as you do with slight power adjustments.
Once you can keep all 3 parameters in check, force small changes in say speed or height, and then quickly correct with slight adjustments and you’ll nail AAR.
Keep a ‘picture’ of the tanker in view and adjust power and controls so the ‘picture’ stays the same. Don’t focus on the boom.
BTW took me years
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It took me several weeks of practice each night after work to be able to hook up. I found it helped to keep flying in formation with the tanker off to each side too while the AI took their turns hooking up. i still have to practice regularly or I get rusty.
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You must do something wrong mate.
My two cents advices are (I don’t think they are worth more
1. Don’t fly formation with the boom in pre contact but with the tanker.
2. Remeber the mental picture of how the engines and wing look like when you are approved for contact.
3. Don’t look at the HUD and especially not at the FPM…watch the tanker the whole time.
4. Fix and relate the tanker to your cocpit and watch if it move around and at what rate…fix it where it should be.
5. Fly with someone…if you want just PM me and I’ll be more than glad to guide you through…for all it needs is just some good advices from some good mates…
6. If push comes to shove you can do one of two last options:
a. Shoot the bugger (it’s such a pleasure when you think that it’s doing it on purpose).
b. Close your eyes. -
I have always told people who are having a hard time refueling that it isn’t that you can’t refuel. You haven’t mastered your stick and throttle. All the tricks in the book will not help you, but make it more confusing. If you want to learn, do it with all visual ques. Learn how your jet responds to your inputs, and watch for your momentum change. Learn to anticipate when to reverse or slow your momentum. Use your fingertips on the stick and throttle and make very small inputs. Give it time to react. Don’t be in a rush. And then after you feel comfortable you hear “Heads up, Tanker entering turn” And that’s the next challenge. Keep practicing, you will get it.
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Thank you all for the advice! Hearing from your experience it’s refreshing to know I’m not retarted and that it really can take so long. I’ve read many times it’s not easy and I expected it not to be a cake walk. But maaaannnn it’s no exaggeration how hard it can be just to get to a point where it all clicks. I thought in days of practice after work and not weeks. I won’t quit. I don’t think I’ve had as much difficulty (but fun difficulty!) or spent as long a time in achieving even just the first steps of a skill as I have on this but it’s good effort and the challenge is the fun.
I wonder IRL when pilots learn to refuel how do they do it without endangering themselves and the crew? Its a given they’re already good at their stick and throttle but I Imagine the fine micro adjustments and micromanagement to keep it from all going away from you from second to second within such small tolerances takes more than basic skill and experience. I can say I’ve had good approaches where everything looks great and then things get away and I clipped through the boom/tanker many times when I was first trying it which can’t happen in real life. do they spend hundreds of hours learning close formation flying before attempting their first refuel and if they don’t get good at close formation flying within say 2 months of time they get washed out of training? Then they spend even more time in a sim to check if they can consistently hook up before going up for real?
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do they spend hundreds of hours learning close formation flying before attempting their first refuel and if they don’t get good at close formation flying within say 2 months of time they get washed out of training? Then they spend even more time in a sim to check if they can consistently hook up before going up for real?
This is exactly it, they spend lots of time learning formation flight and really AAR is just flying a close trail for the most part.
EDIT: I thought it was linked in this thread but it isn’t and can’t remember who linked it in another one but this manual is a big help for formation flight:
http://www.flyfast.org/sites/all/docs/FAST_FKG.pdf
Also there is a formation reference .pdf in the BMS docs for the other formation reference like F-16 cockpit specific angles.Over the years AAR has changed a lot in Falcon thanks to BMS. Used to be the hook up was the hardest part and you were practically locked onto the boom, but then they had to add the jet wash, wake turbulence, and OMG the damn turns. Despite all my years of Falcon, I still get rusty at it and have to chill out and get back to zen after not doibg it for awhile. I’ve really only now got comfortable staying on the boom in a turn. Haven’t mastered going from precontact to contact in a turn yet…
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Hi, I just have uploaded a video so that you can see how I am moving the throttle and the stick during AAR.
My aircraft handling may not as good as that of veterans do, but hope it will help you.Note that when the gauges in the windows property are decreasing, I’m increasing the throttle.
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Omg! I just got contact!!! First time ever after nth to the nth power attempts! :bdance: I’m channeling this forums energy.:bdance: Following the contact was an immediate disconnection but then another contact and fuel flow for a few seconds before the tanker entered a turn. Once it straightened out I got in a good position but the Force left me again and I kamikazed right into the tanker from below. the virtual boomers are pissed but I can tell them “yea I killed us all but at least I got contact”:D my wife told me I was cheering too loud but I told her “yea but at least I got contact”
What I tried different this time from the other times was too just slightly open the speedbrake by a tap or 2 and keeping it there so I could make larger (by a mm or so) movements on the throttle and giving more time for the speed to gain or to decrease. This helped stabilize the speed a bit longer around target speed so I could focus more on steering and not constantly trying to adjust yaw, pitch and speed at the same time. That being said the crux of it is I can sloooowly feel the repeated practice is giving me a better feel for my movements and anticipating the momentum better so it’s really like seeing better into the future like what Mailman said. I find it hardest in that adjusting parameters so close is not like driving a car where the reaction to your action is immediate. And every action doesn’t always have an equal and opposite reaction. A mm of stick down isn’t always cancelled out by a mm of stick up. Its like trying to steer a bullet via rubber bands.
off to be reincarnated into another hapless pilot soul and try again. Virtual tanker staff you will meet your brothers soon. Ecstatic.:woohoo::woohoo:
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Hi, I just have uploaded a video so that you can see how I am moving the throttle and the stick during AAR.
My aircraft handling may not as good as that of veterans do, but hope it will help you.Note that when the gauges in the windows property are decreasing, I’m increasing the throttle.
This is awesome chihiro-san and will be very helpful. Domo arigatou gozaimasu!!:)
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what ive noticed is that once connected to the boom, if you get a light indication of AFT or FWD amd assuming you dont have a notable speed difference, the only thing you have to do is go UP or DOWN a little bit. That means that you dont have to use throttle inputs which makes it easier.
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This topic is over the hump but I’ll add my 0.02.
I think about 20 real attempts was what it took me to be semi-confident at it. As is oft-repeated, AAR is 90% formation flight and 10% the fuel pipe. I’ve helped a few flyers with this including those which break down in swearing and table punching as the stress builds which is a killer or more demoralizing the give-up so soon’ers. Relaxation is important. Deep breathing, stretching, wiggling your toes, whatever you need. I talk to myself on the boom. It helps actualize the corrections I need.
It works myself and has for others. If it’s been a few minutes trying to connect, do something else. Close the AAR door and fly wingtip formation with the tanker for a few minutes. Focusing on formation flight and not on the pipe does wonders for focusing on the part of the activity that needs it. Try AAR with the door closed. Once you internalize that contact is impossible, you can let go of the stress of it and can focus on the primary skill of flying close. It sounds weird but deliberately limiting yourself from getting the whole job done takes the pressure off. Try practicing bombing in SIM or even not pushing the button. Try aborting landings at 50’ altitude.
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what i tend to do is use the flight stick with very small inputs and you have to be able to counter the movements quickly you can’t just turn left you have to bank left then bank right to correct it. I like putting my Flight Path Marker and match it up to the KC-135 once i get really close i don’t use joystick inputs anymore. I have set up one of the Hats on my joystick to Elevator and Aileron trim once i get close i only use trim and i have a setting that allows me to make my throttle stick 50% more sensitive which i use when i’m getting close to the tanker. For the X-55 joystick i like the least tension spring because i mostly fly falcon with 2 fingers it helps with sensitivity and i grab it full on when getting into a dogfight or get close to a ground target.
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What was the average, from when you first started trying, it took you to get your first successful refuel and then get good at it? 10 hours? 50 hours? 100 hours of practice?
It also depens a lot on peoples themselves. Some will need 10h, some other will need 50h, some other 100 … and some will simply never be albe to perform a proper and safe contact …
There are some good advice in previous posts. Take your time, relax, use your eyes rather than your instruments, and remember, there is no contest.
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You got a “good stick” to play with in the first place. ?? :-D:-D:-D
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there is no contest but on MP u must hook up soon enough to get the mission time, and make it through.
I’m still learning… from 98.The thing is I got pistollero’s mod and the stick is super sensitive.
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It is just a matter of practice and patience.
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Now try it with the Bug, super challenging for me.