Viability of learning Falcon solo

[drchek]

Hey all,

I’m constantly in awe of seeing videos of the multiplayer missions people fly in Falcon, particularly the interaction and coordination between the flight lead and wingmen in reacting to threats. As a player with some basic flight sim experience, I’m looking to “up my game” in the realm of mission flying as part of a package. Problem is, that my schedule won’t allow for regular online training with real players.

While I understand that AI will never be as dynamic and realisitic as flying with a live group, I was wondering what the viability of flying with the AI as a learning tool would be. Any tips? Ideally I’d like to start off flying wingman for an AI lead, but what are the limitations of doing that in BMS? What kind of experience could I expect from that? Will an AI lead assign tasks to me in anything resembling a realistic way?

[LorikEolmin]

Ahem… The AI is correct if it flies as your wingmen.

For the rest, learning the sim doesn’t sum up to members coordination, and is very possible solo, thanks to the docs in the Docs folder. Given it’s a necessary and immersive step, I would first care about that. Flying online is possible from the start, or come afterwards.

@drchek:

Hey all,

I’m constantly in awe of seeing videos of the multiplayer missions people fly in Falcon, particularly the interaction and coordination between the flight lead and wingmen in reacting to threats. As a player with some basic flight sim experience, I’m looking to “up my game” in the realm of mission flying as part of a package. Problem is, that my schedule won’t allow for regular online training with real players.

While I understand that AI will never be as dynamic and realisitic as flying with a live group, I was wondering what the viability of flying with the AI as a learning tool would be. Any tips? Ideally I’d like to start off flying wingman for an AI lead, but what are the limitations of doing that in BMS? What kind of experience could I expect from that? Will an AI lead assign tasks to me in anything resembling a realistic way?

[Arty]

Same problem here m8.
I experienced extensivly the online flights and i tell u once u done it solo just sucks.
To tell u the truth for many years since i had limited time i never done a solo flight and only a few online. Now im at a state that i have to go through basic training like a newb that i downgraded my self.
So find a squad and try to be attendive as much as u can. Its a lifetime experience.
Have in mind besides flight hours preperation and debriefing time is essential nor to say mandatory.

sent from my mi5 using Tapatalk

[Revolpathon]

also have you heard about Falcon-Online?

they basicly host massive servers for force on force simulated battle. but what it also is is just a collection of pilots who are just looking for people to fly with. no commitments required, you can just show up on their team speak server and ask if someone wants to fly or teach you something.
http://falcon-online.org/forum/

learning it solo is definately do-able, but you will not be able to learn the multi player aspects untill you actually fly with other people. the AI is not nearly as good as a human in some regards and miles better in other regards… AI having perfect situational awareness and all…
i would not recomend flying as a wingmen with an AI as lead.

my 2 cents for learning, look up tacview, look up how to make ACMI recordings (so you can review them in tacview) learn to make simple TE’s and toy around with the AI a bit and then try your hand at a campaign. and if you have the time hit up falcon online for a flight as your learning speed should increase vastly while flying with other people

edit: also fly the training missions that are included together with the manual. and ofcourse read the manual piece by piece. just pick a system you want to learn about and practise using. this way you prevent saturation.

[Guest]

@drchek:

Hey all,

I’m constantly in awe of seeing videos of the multiplayer missions people fly in Falcon, particularly the interaction and coordination between the flight lead and wingmen in reacting to threats. As a player with some basic flight sim experience, I’m looking to “up my game” in the realm of mission flying as part of a package. Problem is, that my schedule won’t allow for regular online training with real players.

While I understand that AI will never be as dynamic and realisitic as flying with a live group, I was wondering what the viability of flying with the AI as a learning tool would be. Any tips? Ideally I’d like to start off flying wingman for an AI lead, but what are the limitations of doing that in BMS? What kind of experience could I expect from that? Will an AI lead assign tasks to me in anything resembling a realistic way?

For your title, “viability of learning Falcon solo,” the answer is YES, very much so. The manuals and TEs and campaigns are all there for you.

However, in your post, you are talking about flying as part of a package. That is still possible to a limited degree, but you’ll be having to fly LEAD for most of it. I think the AI will just follow the route and not much after that, so you can’t really pick up “tips” from the AI. Flying in MP as part of a virtual wing will greatly accelerate your learning plus flying with human wingman, no matter the skill level, is going to be much, much better than flying with an AI. Even a failed mission with human wingmen means you’ll learn a lot during the debrief. Can’t do that with AI.

[drchek]

@-Ice:

For your title, “viability of learning Falcon solo,” the answer is YES, very much so. The manuals and TEs and campaigns are all there for you.

However, in your post, you are talking about flying as part of a package. That is still possible to a limited degree, but you’ll be having to fly LEAD for most of it. I think the AI will just follow the route and not much after that, so you can’t really pick up “tips” from the AI. Flying in MP as part of a virtual wing will greatly accelerate your learning plus flying with human wingman, no matter the skill level, is going to be much, much better than flying with an AI. Even a failed mission with human wingmen means you’ll learn a lot during the debrief. Can’t do that with AI.

I was mainly wondering how much of the “genuine MP experience” can be had through AI only. Apparently not much. I guess learning basic flight (already got a handle on that) and basic system functionality is where solo flying can still be useful.

[Red Dog]

I was mainly wondering how much of the “genuine MP experience” can be had through AI only.

almsot none. Except maybe learning formation flying on an AI lead
But human screw up all the time and are unpredictable, AI are very predictable.
MP experience with AI is by definition close to zero indeed

I learned the sim solo for many years, but when I started flying MP, I was a total newbee and was very afraid to screw up. A feeling I never had in solo.
Just that simple fact makes MP thrilling and very rewarding (when indeed you don’t screw up)

[-Vandal-]

Spot on Red Dog! Humans are unpredictable and screw up. AI predictably will screw up. LOL.

Drcheck. Some squadrons pretty much have someone to fly with around the clock. So, I don’t think having a goofy schedule is a good excuse. The squadron you might want to be a part of the most might not be able to be there for someone with your schedule, but there are others that will be. Look for an international squadron that has members in the Americas, Europe/Middle East, and Australia/Asia and that does more than just meet once or twice a week.

If you are looking for some one on one time to basically work through getting comfortable with multiplayer, I would be happy to help you with that. I am no expert at brevity or hosting multiplayer missions but if you private message me your schedule, I’ll get some “multiplayer familiarization flights” scheduled for you. If you have to bail because of real life or work it’s no big deal because in the worse case scenario that just means we’ll be flying without you, which we already do and love to do, so you never need to feel bad about cancelling. Seriously, I think every single person here would love to see you enjoy Falcon BMS multiplayer.

[drchek]

@-Vandal-:

If you are looking for some one on one time to basically work through getting comfortable with multiplayer, I would be happy to help you with that. I am no expert at brevity or hosting multiplayer missions but if you private message me your schedule, I’ll get some “multiplayer familiarization flights” scheduled for you. If you have to bail because of real life or work it’s no big deal because in the worse case scenario that just means we’ll be flying without you, which we already do and love to do, so you never need to feel bad about cancelling. Seriously, I think every single person here would love to see you enjoy Falcon BMS multiplayer.

I will definitely consider taking you up on that. Thanks!

[drchek]

Just watched this!! LOL!! Thanks Krause for kicking my butt to get going!!

[MorteSil]

@-Vandal-:

Spot on Red Dog! Humans are unpredictable and screw up. AI predictably will screw up. LOL.

Drcheck. Some squadrons pretty much have someone to fly with around the clock. So, I don’t think having a goofy schedule is a good excuse. The squadron you might want to be a part of the most might not be able to be there for someone with your schedule, but there are others that will be. Look for an international squadron that has members in the Americas, Europe/Middle East, and Australia/Asia and that does more than just meet once or twice a week.

If you are looking for some one on one time to basically work through getting comfortable with multiplayer, I would be happy to help you with that. I am no expert at brevity or hosting multiplayer missions but if you private message me your schedule, I’ll get some “multiplayer familiarization flights” scheduled for you. If you have to bail because of real life or work it’s no big deal because in the worse case scenario that just means we’ll be flying without you, which we already do and love to do, so you never need to feel bad about cancelling. Seriously, I think every single person here would love to see you enjoy Falcon BMS multiplayer.

FOs COOP server is up and running again as of late–on a Korea theater, so you may be able to alleviate some of that hassle over there as long as you two can coordinate some times to fly.

[-Vandal-]

Sounds good to me!

[-Pv-]

My solution to MP availability… Talk a friend into purchasing every MP flight game I have. At the worst of times, I have at least ONE person to fly MP with at least 2-8 hours a week.

When starting out with F4, there is a lot to learn and working with AI is part of that. It’s good to know what to expect of the AI in a multi-player game so you can make best use of the human contribution.
When you have mastered single play, MP is there to move you on to more game satisfaction. Despite the availability of human players on various hosts, more often than not, experienced players with something to teach but don’t have the talent or calling to teach, are very intolerant of mistakes and will not fly with newbies or will only once, maybe soon to bail on you.
Take advantage of those here who have invited you.

If you admit up front you are new and need some advice, you’ll find players willing to jump in with you rapidly dwindling to few or nothing on the servers.
Again, a friend learning with you is the best way to go if you can. In the mean time there are documents you can read about radio procedures and multiplayer technique so when you jump into the large servers,
you no longer need to pronounce your newness and have better luck finding flyers.
This was my approach and when I joined a virtual wing and took the formation test, I passed all of it without any training from the wing because I had practiced their procedures and chatter with my friend.
Bottom line, most regular online pilots consider their time valuable and usually want to spend their time actually accomplishing missions and will prefer a cadre of close friends they can rely on to make the most of their investment.
Notice that I qualified my generalizations of online pilots. If you can find one or more tolerant online trainers/teachers, they are rare, but very valuable assets.
My impression is in the early days of SuperPak when I was getting into online wings, there were enough other people who were also learning at my level, the enthusiasm for just having anyone to fly with was higher than it is now.
-Pv-

[MorteSil]

@-Pv-:

My solution to MP availability… Talk a friend into purchasing every MP flight game I have. At the worst of times, I have at least ONE person to fly MP with at least 2-8 hours a week.

When starting out with F4, there is a lot to learn and working with AI is part of that. It’s good to know what to expect of the AI in a multi-player game so you can make best use of the human contribution.
When you have mastered single play, MP is there to move you on to more game satisfaction. Despite the availability of human players on various hosts, more often than not, experienced players with something to teach but don’t have the talent or calling to teach, are very intolerant of mistakes and will not fly with newbies or will only once, maybe soon to bail on you.
Take advantage of those here who have invited you.

If you admit up front you are new and need some advice, you’ll find players willing to jump in with you rapidly dwindling to few or nothing on the servers.
Again, a friend learning with you is the best way to go if you can. In the mean time there are documents you can read about radio procedures and multiplayer technique so when you jump into the large servers,
you no longer need to pronounce your newness and have better luck finding flyers.
This was my approach and when I joined a virtual wing and took the formation test, I passed all of it without any training from the wing because I had practiced their procedures and chatter with my friend.
Bottom line, most regular online pilots consider their time valuable and usually want to spend their time actually accomplishing missions and will prefer a cadre of close friends they can rely on to make the most of their investment.
Notice that I qualified my generalizations of online pilots. If you can find one or more tolerant online trainers/teachers, they are rare, but very valuable assets.
My impression is in the early days of SuperPak when I was getting into online wings, there were enough other people who were also learning at my level, the enthusiasm for just having anyone to fly with was higher than it is now.
-Pv-

Learning with a friend might be convenient, but there is nobody there to correct your bad habits–which we all formed at one point or another and had to break eventually. If I have learned anything from these forums, it’s that this game isn’t supposed to be easy or convenient…so why would learning MP be any different? Take the time and put forth the effort to find someone with some experience and see if you can make your schedules work out. I understand it’s a different environment now than the SuperPak days, but two new guys teaching each other should be somewhat of a last resort if you ask me. Particularly if you want at some point to fly on more populated servers, with people from different areas who all do things just a little different. Two new guys’ idea of “close” formation (Which would be required for any VFW checkride) is going to be a lot different than that of an experienced player. A lot of things, even after reading the docs, just won’t make sense until you do it–things like multi-flight IDM, proper yardstick setup, ground calls when taxiing, buddy lasing, target separation, split or sector scans, flying headings for CAP instead of waypoints, and the list goes on–most of which has some sort of explanation in the reading material, but most new players just don’t quite get until they have it taught. In my experience with guys I have trained or interacted with during their training, they typically don’t like to voluntarily do the harder stuff every time, such as AR on EVERY flight–which ALL new players should be doing–using unguided munitions instead of guided as often as possible, or practice finding your way home without the digital avionics. When there is nobody “In charge” of training you, it is harder to stay on track, and almost guaranteed to miss something simply because you don’t know you should be learning it.

Not all the VFWs out there require weekly or regular participation. If your schedule is tight or unpredictable you can still find a group to fly with, it just might take a little more time and patience.

[Krause]

@drchek:

Just watched this!! LOL!! Thanks Krause for kicking my butt to get going!!

You are welcome. Welcome aboard!

[Guest]

I don’t like the “learning with a friend” bit as well unless the friend is into BMS in the first place… otherwise, you’re just using him and if he’s not interested, you’ll probably learn nothing from him. If both of you are interested, that’ll be slightly better but unless either one of you has a knack for it, it’ll be like the blind leading the blind. Sure, you can practice dropping bombs and flying formation and all those other stuff, but that’ll probably be 20-30% of how it’s done properly or in a “combat” environment.

To give you one example… we were practicing dropping bombs in KOTAR range and we thought we were sh!t hot!! That is, until an ex-Rhino pilot (or RIO?) jumped in with us and told us we were too loose and we needed to be doing tighter circuits and be hitting the target with closer intervals. So while we were doing something “adequately,” it’s still different when someone who knows how it’s done is there to show you and give corrections.

[Cik]

i learned it solo and i consider myself an expert

granted it’s a long process. it was 300 hours before i was a novice, and 500-600 before i was “okay”

it also involves a lot of reading and asking stupid questions on BMSforum

better i think to find a group that can walk you through it. much faster, and probably more thorough. the problem with self-teaching is that often the knowledge you gain is very incomplete and/or wrong, and it will take you a dozen passes per subject to really gain a full, rich and thorough understanding of the topic.

first you will learn wrong, then wrong(er) then slightly better, repeat slightly better 15 times and then you will have it down. do you have the time for such a thing?

[drtbkj]

@drchek:

Hey all,

I’m constantly in awe of seeing videos of the multiplayer missions people fly in Falcon, particularly the interaction and coordination between the flight lead and wingmen in reacting to threats. As a player with some basic flight sim experience, I’m looking to “up my game” in the realm of mission flying as part of a package. Problem is, that my schedule won’t allow for regular online training with real players.

While I understand that AI will never be as dynamic and realisitic as flying with a live group, I was wondering what the viability of flying with the AI as a learning tool would be. Any tips? Ideally I’d like to start off flying wingman for an AI lead, but what are the limitations of doing that in BMS? What kind of experience could I expect from that? Will an AI lead assign tasks to me in anything resembling a realistic way?

Drcheck, first-welcome! I have been working on formation flying and SA, that being my weakness in the MP area.So, I often fly as wingman, or preferably element lead of a 4 ship. I can tell you that keeping formation on an AI lead is lot harder then a human one, so therefore is great practice(IMHO)