Bullseye
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By coded name I would think.
No, if you move STPT 25 then in-cockpit display moves BZ indication to new 25 position.
AI do know new BZ location… if you set it in 2D map.
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… AI do know new BZ location… if you set it in 2D map.
What’s the reason for setting the new bullseye? Also, how do you interpret the tick mark that shows on the bearing and range of the bullseye?
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If you are referring to the little mark on the circle in the bottom left corner of the radar or HSD, it points toward bullseye. The original falcon manual describes bullseye on page 21-15 (432).
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@jc1:
What’s the reason for setting the new bullseye?
Imagine an MP session with human AWACS and several packages working on very different areas. If one bulls is located in Haeju, and you are working over Chonngjin, you might be interested by another bulls located closer to your area of interest.
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If you are referring to the little mark on the circle in the bottom left corner of the radar or HSD, it points toward bullseye. The original falcon manual describes bullseye on page 21-15 (432).
Thanks
@Frederf:By coded name I would think.
No, if you move STPT 25 then in-cockpit display moves BZ indication to new 25 position.
AI do know new BZ location… if you set it in 2D map.
What I’m hearing is that AI knows BZ location if it’s set in UI(2D map), but AI does not know the BZ that is set in the pit at stpt 25 during flight, although AI still knows the BZ set at UI. That leaves 2 questions.
1. So why set a new BZ in the pit at stpt 25 during flight?
Edit:
Just saw post #54. What is your answer if in single player, not MP?2. If you set a BZ in the pit at stpt 25 during flight, which BZ, the UI one or the new one, shows up on the HSD and FCR?
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Just to be clear (I’m about 95% sure), the BE set in the UI is stpt 25 on the data cartridge. IOW, if you change stpt 25 in the pit, it will change THE Bullseye for you (and anyone else who makes the same change).
Why you’d set the BE in the UI, presumably at briefing, and change it in the pit, I don’t know.
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Just to be clear (I’m about 95% sure), the BE set in the UI is stpt 25 on the data cartridge. IOW, if you change stpt 25 in the pit, it will change THE Bullseye for you (and anyone else who makes the same change).
Why you’d set the BE in the UI, presumably at briefing, and change it in the pit, I don’t know.
I’m clear about setting the BE in the UI. Thanks. But really would like to know the answers to the 2 questions in my post #55.
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@jc1:
I’m clear about setting the BE in the UI. Thanks. But really would like to know the answers to the 2 questions in my post #55.
Yes, the answer for your Q2 follows from that. If the UI BZ is stpt 25 and you change stpt 25 in the pit, you change your BZ in the HSD, FCR, etc. If you change the location of stpt #1 in the pit, does it not change all references to stpt #1 on the HSD, etc?
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Yes, the answer for your Q2 follows from that. If the UI BZ is stpt 25 and you change stpt 25 in the pit, you change your BZ in the HSD, FCR, etc. If you change the location of stpt #1 in the pit, does it not change all references to stpt #1 on the HSD, etc?
OK, that means the blue BZ circle on the HSD and FCR corresponds to the changed stpt 25. Then AWACS gives a call related to the original BZ, which you don’t see anymore on HSD or FCR –- you see the changed BZ. So why change the BZ during flight when AWACS calls are based on the original bullseye and you can’t see that AWACS bullseye on the HSD or FCR? I know you said in post #56 that you don’t know, but maybe someone else knows.
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If you are referring to the little mark on the circle in the bottom left corner of the radar or HSD, it points toward bullseye. The original falcon manual describes bullseye on page 21-15 (432).
Thanks for that. It appears that the tick mark shown in the Bullseye Training at http://www.185th.co.uk/squad_info/training/basic_n&b.htm is useless for that training tool. Or am I missing something about the tool?
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It’s the BE direction as you would see it in the cockpit. Thus if you are west of BE going south-west the BE would be over your left shoulder so expect the tick mark at the 7-8 oclock position. The trainer is accurate in that respect.
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Logically stpt 25 is a system variable for the code, so if this changes whenever it does the system adopts and displays accordingly.
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@jc1:
Thanks for that. It appears that the tick mark shown in the Bullseye Training at http://www.185th.co.uk/squad_info/training/basic_n&b.htm is useless for that training tool. Or am I missing something about the tool?
It’s the BE direction as you would see it in the cockpit. Thus if you are west of BE going south-west the BE would be over your left shoulder so expect the tick mark at the 7-8 oclock position. The trainer is accurate in that respect.
I accept that. But do you agree that you can do the Bullseye training without making use of the tick mark?
Logically stpt 25 is a system variable for the code, so if this changes whenever it does the system adopts and displays accordingly.
I now understand that. But if AI AWACS still uses the original bullseye, why would you change steerpoint 25 during flight–-AWACS won’t know it and you won’t see the AWACS bullseye on your HSD and FCR?
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@jc1:
I accept that. But do you agree that you can do the Bullseye training without making use of the tick mark?
I now understand that. But if AI AWACS still uses the original bullseye, why would you change steerpoint 25 during flight–-AWACS won’t know it and you won’t see the AWACS bullseye on your HSD and FCR?
AWACS will use the variable… so if you change stpt 25 thus the variable then everyone is on the same page and same bullseye.
It’s the same as if you altered the BE in mission planning or before takeoff.In real (not 100% sure) in awacs the operators can operate different packages - flights… so each can have a different BE if that serves better. So every operator uses calls with the specific BE for the package he is assigned.
But this must be used in very large areas… if the zone they are servicing and the package is covered with one BE I believe they just use one for all flights in the package. For SA I believe all calls are heard from all package members (flights) so if each flight has different BE it will be a mess.AWACS doesn’t actually need his BE nor the flights need to know it. The awacs is there to serve the flights and packages… packages don’t need to bother with the awacs BE, they are concerned for their BE. So awacs operators use flights or package BE so that all involved have the same reference and SA is clear to all.
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@jc1:
I accept that. But do you agree that you can do the Bullseye training without making use of the tick mark?
I now understand that. But if AI AWACS still uses the original bullseye, why would you change steerpoint 25 during flight–-AWACS won’t know it and you won’t see the AWACS bullseye on your HSD and FCR?
Certainly, the heading displayed by the nose of the plane in the picture is effectively the same information and it’s what I used because my mental plotting board was north-up. If you notice that it’s exactly 12 oc, 3 oc, 6 oc, 9 oc since you glance there anyway you might save a second or two of brain time or not depending on your process. I think the trainer is a bit unrealistic because of the pace and that you don’t have a running idea of your own bulls but if you can select which of the 4-directions and even start to evaluate BFM vs. AIM-120 ranges that’s a good skill. I think recognizing AIM-9 or 20mm ranges is ridiculous though.
You ask why. Why… if it seems like a good reason at the time using your tactical creativity. I can’t remember the last time I changed it (maybe to remedy a bad DTC). If you can’t think of a good reason to change it, don’t. I don’t think it’s a magic secret you’ve been missing out on.
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AWACS will use the variable….
That’s not the case subsequent to takeoff. If you change the bullseye DURING FLIGHT nobody in your flight or package will be aware of the changed bullseye. Neither will artificial intelligence (AI) AWACS be aware of the changed bullseye. So if you “Request Picture”, AI AWACS will give bearing and range based on bullseye PRIOR to takeoff (including any changes in cockpit PRIOR to takeoff). After AI AWACS gives the picture, you won’t have the bullseye related to the AI AWACS call on your HSD or FCR.
So I still ask: why would you change bullseye IN FLIGHT? Now Frederf, in post #65, says change it if it improves your tactical creativity. I’m still learning this plane, so I haven’t come up with any tactically creative ways for changing the bullseye DURING FLIGHT. Did you?
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Certainly, the heading displayed by the nose of the plane in the picture is effectively the same information and it’s what I used because my mental plotting board was north-up. If you notice that it’s exactly 12 oc, 3 oc, 6 oc, 9 oc since you glance there anyway you might save a second or two of brain time or not depending on your process. I think the trainer is a bit unrealistic because of the pace and that you don’t have a running idea of your own bulls but if you can select which of the 4-directions and even start to evaluate BFM vs. AIM-120 ranges that’s a good skill. I think recognizing AIM-9 or 20mm ranges is ridiculous though.
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Now I can stop sweating. Thanks for putting the Bullseye Trainer in some kind of perspective because I was thinking I’ll never get good at this, even at the “Easy” level.
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I am no expert; but isn’t one reason to change BE in flight to increase precision in for example a CAS situation? Put a new bulseye close to an assigned CAS box; so that a FAC or someone else can assign targets using BE with much more precision than would be the case if the BE is 100s of miles away?
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I am no expert; but isn’t one reason to change BE in flight to increase precision in for example a CAS situation? Put a new bulseye close to an assigned CAS box; so that a FAC or someone else can assign targets using BE with much more precision than would be the case if the BE is 100s of miles away?
Correct. But IRL, CAS mission are rather using GARS (grid system).
@jc1:
If you change the bullseye DURING FLIGHT nobody in your flight or package will be aware of the changed bullseye.
Why not? You have a radio… and you are supposed to brief your mission. Each bull has its own name (I.E: COCO ; TOYOTA ; ROCKY ; … ) Maybe during a mission you could be re-assigned to another CAP station. Maybe another bulls will be more suitable/practical to be used.
Neither will artificial intelligence (AI) AWACS be aware of the changed bullseye. So if you “Request Picture”, AI AWACS will give bearing and range based on bullseye PRIOR to takeoff
Correct. This is why we are saying that it is rather valid for MP session …
So I still ask: why would you change bullseye IN FLIGHT?
Now you know.
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Dee-Jay is correct on multiple bullseye…particularly for CAS.
+1.