Falcon 4 has new owners …... VR Headsets imminent.... Falcon VR?
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TrackIR, or the DIY version that costs less than $10, can be calibrated to respond to very sensitive deliberate head movements while ignoring slight unintentional movements. If you adjust sensitivity, you’d be surprised how little you actually have to move your head. People seem to think you have to throw your head around and roll your eyes like Stevie Wonder… it isn’t like that at all.
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@wax:
TrackIR, or the DIY version that costs less than $10, can be calibrated to respond to very sensitive deliberate head movements while ignoring slight unintentional movements. If you adjust sensitivity, you’d be surprised how little you actually have to move your head. People seem to think you have to throw your head around and roll your eyes like Stevie Wonder… it isn’t like that at all.
…you do in the real world, and that’s exactly why I can’t stand TIR. I’ve had to re-learn to actually turn my head past the 90 to line up on a runway in the trainers. Like you have to do in RL.
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TIR is completely intuitive. I don’t understand why anyone would have trouble using it.
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Took me minutes and I was used to TIR. Now flying without it is a no go for me.
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I follow both sides
TIR was a game changer for me and I do not fly without it.
But Stevie is right. TIR creates muscle memory and reflexes that are unnatural. A while ago I was able to try out a full scale pit with a large projector and curved screen and I had to rally think hard and force myself to actually look to my left to keep formation for example. I automatically just turned my head for a few degrees and kept looking to the forward part of the pit out of TIR habit. Very annoying!
So if you are a desktop flyer, TIR is no doubt a must in my opinion, but if you move to a setup with peripheral view, it’s quit the opposite. -
No need to bash TIR.
The issues Stevie has are simply due to the fact that he has 360° view.
99.9% of the crowd here don’t.Considering the above It’s pretty obvious that TIR must amplify head movement to keep a visual on a tiny screen covering 20% of our Field of view
So no need to take one very very specific application to bash the TIR. That hardware for many of users has been one of the most immersive one. I really wouldn’t know how to enjoy BMS without TIR.But Stevie is right. TIR creates muscle memory and reflexes that are unnatural
I have zero probem switching from TIR to real flying head movement. No brainer. I don’t buy the muscle memory stuff. How would all real pilots here cope with it then.?
I can be at 10am in the sim pit and at 1pm in the real aicraft and I never ever had trouble looking where I wanted to look because of the previous SIM with TIR.
I really don’t understand that argument. If I want to look at my left flap. I just turn my head till I see it. No halfaway and then wondering why I don’t see it -
@Red:
I have zero probem switching from TIR to real flying head movement. No brainer. I don’t buy the muscle memory stuff. How would all real pilots here cope with it then.?
+1000
To be honest, before I tested it for the first time I was also reluctant, and thinking the same (argument)…. mostly because I saw pics and videos from BMS partners, using a single small screen (sometimes a small laptop)… Those crossed neck-eyeballs twists were weird…
… but one you tested it, it´s not a big deal. I´m also fortunate to have a setup with three big screens as visual (as many already have), and I don´t have to turn my eyes anywere… Even with stock configuration (profile) of the TIR, when I look at the center of one of the side monitors, I´m almost looking backwards… so no need to turn eyes… just turn my head…
Still sometimes, for meetings etc, I have to move with only one screen… Less SA… less inmersión… no problem at all, and of course, Never Ever experienced any trouble in RL.
Anyway… everyone is invited to show off his likes and dislikes… that´s why colors were made for… no need to critic or defend anything… just share your experience.
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@Red:
No need to bash TIR.
The issues Stevie has are simply due to the fact that he has 360° view.
99.9% of the crowd here don’t.I’m not bashing, as said earlier, I understand both sides and I never fly if my TIR isn’t working.
@Red:
That hardware for many of users has been one of the most immersive one. I really wouldn’t know how to enjoy BMS without TIR.
Agreed, it’s the first thing I recommend a new comer in the sqn.
@Red:
I have zero probem switching from TIR to real flying head movement. No brainer. I don’t buy the muscle memory stuff. How would all real pilots here cope with it then.?
I can be at 10am in the sim pit and at 1pm in the real aicraft and I never ever had trouble looking where I wanted to look because of the previous SIM with TIR.
I really don’t understand that argument. If I want to look at my left flap. I just turn my head till I see it. No halfaway and then wondering why I don’t see itCalling it muscle memory or bad habits or something else I don’t care, I just know for a fact I personally have a very hard time adjusting switching between the 2 situations. But I even have that problem when just watching a normal movie. When I wonder what’s happening lower or to a side outside the screen I’ve found myself tilting my head as I would with TIR in BMS to get another POV, which obviously doesn’t work
Maybe some people are more prone to such bad habits compared to others. -
The main point that I remember is that VR is not a great solution as you cannot see any input devices (actual MFD’s, keyboard, knobs and switches) with goggles on.
exactly.
VR is better for hybrid sim/arcade games. Or BMS AA engagements/dogfight matches.
Even in DCS A10C where mastermode and weapon cycling (HOTAS mapping) is IMHO more streamlined, VR is manageable. But in BMS, where mavericks require boresighting/ SPI needs reset after deployment/ A-G modes managed in MFDs and and MFD buttons are pressed way more often, VR can be a hassle to the point where you can’t fly combat missions.
Maybe augmented reality could solve the problem, wherein you still have an eyes down view of your keyboard. Just a thought. -
The HTC vive has a front facing camera that should allow you to look out of your headset while keeping it on (over the game itself).
I have no clue if it will allow you to make out small details but it’s somewhat of a solution. -
TIR’s “unrealistic head movement” is a totally bogus argument. Just as it only takes moments to learn via “muscle memory”, so it also takes only moments to “unlearn” when using a different paradigm.
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@Red:
I have zero problem switching from TIR to real flying head movement. No brainer. I don’t buy the muscle memory stuff. How would all real pilots here cope with it then? I can be at 10am in the sim pit and at 1pm in the real aicraft and I never ever had trouble looking where I wanted to look because of the previous SIM with TIR.
Absolutely agree. Just as it takes only moments to adapt to TIR’s “muscle memory” requirements, so it also takes only moments to re-adjust to some other paradigm. Silly, silly argument.
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Absolutely agree. Just as it takes only moments to adapt to TIR’s “muscle memory” requirements, so it also takes only moments to re-adjust to some other paradigm. Silly, silly argument.
For you it might take a moment, for me I have significant adapting issues. So what may be "silly " for you, might be a valid argument for another.
And for the record, once more, I love my TIR, and I don’t consider my issue with it to be a reason to bash that hardware, I’m still a huge fan. But calling them silly is also incorrect, because not all people react/adapt to it on a similar level it seems. -
Im curious to see how this new hardware will work… I know in the past they drifted like crazy, but the new gyros and accelerometers are much better so it could be great.
I tried for years to NOT buy a TiR (building face track units, etc) but finally did pay up and Im glad I did.
I personally find the argument against TiR as too picky but hey, it could be a nice breakthrough for our hobby and let us avoid the $150 ransom we must pay to natural point LOL.
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I personally find the argument against TiR as too picky but hey, it could be a nice breakthrough for our hobby and let us avoid the $150 ransom we must pay to natural point LOL.
You could try delanengineering.com, more solid build and cheaper
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You could try delanengineering.com, more solid build and cheaper
+1
I have this and can recommend it highly.
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Jup, I got the non-UBS one (battery pack powered) and attached it with a car back view mirror thingy.
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For you it might take a moment, for me I have significant adapting issues. So what may be "silly " for you, might be a valid argument for another.
And for the record, once more, I love my TIR, and I don’t consider my issue with it to be a reason to bash that hardware, I’m still a huge fan. But calling them silly is also incorrect, because not all people react/adapt to it on a similar level it seems.+1. And the more time I spend in full up trainers the more muscle memory/adaptation problems I find I can generate from “gaming” vs “simming”…second biggest being getting over arm positioning for throttle handling - that one is probably the worst for me outside of realizing natural head movement. I also thought I would seriously over-control my FCC3 before I ever used it, but I LOVE the thing and adapted to it in near zero time. Now I have issues over-controlling a center stick…so I’ve stopped desk flying entirely for a bit. I’m beginning to wonder why ALL fighters don’t have SSC type sticks like the Viper…
I have yet to finish setting up my EDTracker, and I certainly don’t intend to use it as “intended”…again, we’ll see how that works out. But as far as it’s form factor and operation go (as demonstrated in Kukki’s video) I already consider it a VAST improvement over TIR headgear, as it looks like I can very easily embed it within the liner of a flight helmet.
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+1
I have this and can recommend it highly.
+1 from me, too. DelanClip rocks (and not just for the price, but also the build quality).
uwe
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I’m beginning to wonder why ALL fighters don’t have SSC type sticks like the Viper…
Pretty much. The FCC3 rocks, glad to hear you went for it!