Why Virtual Reality for BMS would improve the experience by order of magnitudes.
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Virtual Reality gives you 360° awareness of your surroundings without having to invest multiple thousands of dollars for big and work intensive MultiMonitor/Projector solution.
Virtual Reality gives you a very real feeling of speed and scale that is not reachable with other visual solutions.
Virtual Reality this year is going to the mass market, the Oculus Rift and HTC Vive are about to the be shipped.FlyInside FSX already shows that Virtual Reality works perfectly (with the FPS friendly method of asynchronous time warping) and is a real or maybe the BEST option for flight sim enthusiasts.
Watch these videos and you will see the potential :
For those who worry about the manipulation of cockpit buttons and swtiches there is already an awesome solution, called Leap Motion that you attach to your HMD :
So if the makers of BMS Falcon read this , please think about bringing VR/Oculus Support to BMS , many people would even gladly pay for a VR Support Option for BMS.
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We’ve discussed this a lot in all the other VR threads. Basically the big limitation for BMS is the HUD/HCMS focus not being at infinity and then the issue for cockpit builders not being able to see their switches/instruments (I am a believer in the front facing camera like Vive or a gap on the under side that lets you look inside the cockpit like what already happens IRL when using NVGs).
Arty and I both have played with the Leap Motion. I know I don’t use it any more and don’t think he does either. I wanted to use it as a virtual mouse to flip 3d cockpit switches but as an early adopter the support wasn’t there. The buzz will still hot around it so I ebayed it. I would be willing to give it another try if it had better support for Falcon’s 3d world.
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VR might be great for games but for a sim that is often used with complex physical input devices (and I mean well beyond merely using a HOTAS setup) it’s just plain and simple the wrong approach.
AR > VR, so maybe AR one day??
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It is possible , it will be pretty effective if we just use HOTAS but when there is a need to use a switch you can not work in an effective way
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Try hitting a button on your MFD at the desk with a RIFT… and this is just basic input
If you just fly some cans out of Soul with a C-130 it might work… a fighter without good input…
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VR might be great for games but for a sim that is often used with complex physical input devices (and I mean well beyond merely using a HOTAS setup) it’s just plain and simple the wrong approach.
AR > VR, so maybe AR one day??
The Vive is already having AR like features with its front facing camera and Gen2 VR might be there. HUD/HCMS focus as I understand it is a big fix and potentially big performance hit. Hehe I feel like a man shouting into a storm, but with the proper under gap you can use it with the physical cockpit, I have tested it with my phone VR setup.
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i havent seen any AR features from the vive… you can see what the camera sees in-game but it doesnt alter that camera picture in any way (which is what AR does)
AR for falcon is the way forward as far as pit builders are concerned… a white dome or white room or something along those lines and their pit. i imagine that would be heaven… motion actuated chair that i read a topic about recently… drools
for people with hotas and keyboard and mouse set up i can easily see them going VR… my mouse cursor is still visible… so i can move the mouse… and my keyboard is something that most of us can operate blindly, if not as fast as when you can catch a quick glance at it. downside is ofcourse FPS. not sure about asynchronous solution that is supossedly fps friendly… something has to be sacrificed there (you dont want even half a milisecond delay between movement and changing picture… it will create motion sickness i’ve been told from the people that tested the dev kits vs release kits.
i hope if it ever becomes an option that someone can give a good review as to how it behaves in dogfighting scenario’s because that’s where it can truly shine -
The Vive is already having AR like
i havent seen any AR features from the vive… you can see what the camera sees in-game but it doesnt alter that camera picture in any way (which is what AR does)
AR for falcon is the way forward as far as pit builders are concerned… a white dome or white room or something along those lines and their pit. i imagine that would be heaven… motion actuated chair that i read a topic about recently… drools
for people with hotas and keyboard and mouse set up i can easily see them going VR… my mouse cursor is still visible… so i can move the mouse… and my keyboard is something that most of us can operate blindly, if not as fast as when you can catch a quick glance at it. downside is ofcourse FPS. not sure about asynchronous solution that is supossedly fps friendly… something has to be sacrificed there (you dont want even half a milisecond delay between movement and changing picture… it will create motion sickness i’ve been told from the people that tested the dev kits vs release kits.
i hope if it ever becomes an option that someone can give a good review as to how it behaves in dogfighting scenario’s because that’s where it can truly shineHehe I said AR like, it does the holodeck style thing but also in another thread here there is also video of it having a virtual “tablet” of your front facing camera feed. Again this is first gen, even probably during the software life of the initial Vive the front facing camera support will get better if it doesn’t bring the hardware to the its knees. I think 2ndGen front facing cameras and more AR features will start to be added in.
Edit for the link from the other thread of the front facing camera article: http://venturebeat.com/2016/03/02/heres-how-htc-vives-front-facing-camera-works-while-youre-in-virtual-reality/
There have been many reports here from OR guys that are mixed but tend to be overall positive for the whole VR in sims, just not VR in Falcon for the most part again due to the HUD/HCMS and secondarily mouse cursor issue in stereoscopic. I messed around with the Trinus VR app while trying to decide if I was going to attempt a HMD build (wouldn’t be true VR because I wasn’t going to be stereoscopic and may have had to keep the head tracking TIR based). I really recommend to everyone vaguely interested to play around Google Cardboard app and even Trinus VR if you want to see some of the potential. Almost everybody has a smartphone to try it with. TrinusVR shows some promise and might be good for other games but it defaults to splitting the view even without the stereo enabled and it ends up with a weird aspect ratio in BMS and I couldn’t get the headtracking to work.
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there are VR gloves that are coming out . that might help alot.
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jake.d
NO -
I dont think any of you have tried it. If you do not use external mfds, switches, or the keyboard, only mouse and cougar, it is like being there. When i check six, that is amazing. You actually lean back in a dogfight. It felt like i was in a dream and actually flying. The stereoscopic real life vision, that makes it look like another actual huge jet is there next to you, is what is worth it to make compromises. I dont care about maybe leaning forward to read the ded, or peeking under to check notes, the real life vision you get of sitting in the cockpit is why im getting it.
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Totally agree with jake.d, adding my +1 in for VR support. I had flashbacks back to my training in a C152 when I using using a friend’s DK2. It’s seriously powerful stuff. Doing it hungover was a big mistake though
I stopped commenting & posting threads about VR here because it’s just not worth the arguments. For some reason, it’s always viewed negatively and like OldGoat5 says, mostly by people that haven’t even used it.
Cheers,
Del
Edit: I really don’t get some of the responses. Just a ‘NO’? Really? Come on. Nobody is forcing you to use VR if you don’t want to.
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I dont think any of you have tried it. If you do not use external mfds, switches, or the keyboard, only mouse and cougar, it is like being there. When i check six, that is amazing. You actually lean back in a dogfight. It felt like i was in a dream and actually flying. The stereoscopic real life vision, that makes it look like another actual huge jet is there next to you, is what is worth it to make compromises. I dont care about maybe leaning forward to read the ded, or peeking under to check notes, the real life vision you get of sitting in the cockpit is why im getting it.
It works in simpler games like Elite Dangerous because you can bind everything you need to the HOTAS and never have to touch the keyboard or other external input ever during play.
BMS is too complex for that right now. Many flight simulators are too complex for that right now.
Maybe someday, but today is not that day. Tomorrow isn’t looking good either.
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The one I tried was not good, They ( my sons ) were using it for I racing. it hurt my eyes and couldn’t get focus in the distance.
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It works in simpler games like Elite Dangerous because you can bind everything you need to the HOTAS and never have to touch the keyboard or other external input ever during play.
That’s what i always try to say: sure, VR is a blast for immersion. But it’s a big drawback in useability in complex enviroments like BMS.
I always have to smirk when imagine VR users fumbling around playing “Blind man’s buff” with their keyboard, mouse and what not. Relying only on muscle memory may work in limited way when flying the desk, in a real plane a wrong or to late switched toggle, know …. may result in a crash.
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I don’t understand just why some seem to assume that everyone’s set up is identical to their own. I for one use Mud’s profile, slightly tweaked. From taxiing to landing I use no other controls than my mouse and HOTAS. There’s no reason why that should be an issue with e.g. OR.
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Here lies Lt. Lawndart
he tried to eject flares
but shut down his engine instead
His last words:
“****ing Leaaaaap” -
The one I tried was not good, They ( my sons ) were using it for I racing. it hurt my eyes and couldn’t get focus in the distance.
I wonder if VR can damage your eyes. Your eyes constantly focus on one distance and you don’t have the option to look away, like you can with a regular monitor. They already say that looking at your monitor for long periods is bad for your eyes and that you should frequently look away to focus on various distances. With VR you can’t do that…so I wonder what the effects will be if you often use VR for longer periods of time, like long flights in a sim…
EDIT link to site with some info:
http://venturebeat.com/2015/04/18/were-not-talking-about-what-vr-is-doing-to-our-eyes-and-our-brains/ -
Haha, yeah, the famous haveitallprogrammedtoshiftedhotaskeys :mrgreen:
Always a good laugh when some of these guys ejects accidentially or lowers the gear during Dogfight
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What?
Look at Mud’s profile, no shift keys involved. It’s mapped to give you control of all RL HOTAS functions, lets you fly perfectly well from take off to landing using nothing but the HOTAS and mouse. No compromises or anything unrealistic about that.