When you guys close the cockpit?
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It is SOP to close the canopy before engine start. Starting the A/C with the canopy open is a big no-no. During training it is made very clear to always close the canopy first due to engine or GTS failure. If the GTS fails on a Harrier it often shoots oil out the top and can fall into the cockpit if the canopy is open. I had a failed GTS one time and it shot a fireball out of the main engine because the GTS was not spinning the turbines, so the fuel pooled in the can and click-click-click BOOOOOM. That’s when I learned why they teach you emergency shut down until it’s habit. I reached for the manual fuel shutoff very quickly. The crew on the ground looked freaked out when I got out and told me it was the biggest fireball anyone had ever seen up close. It lit up the night brighter than day time. Maintenance control had a holy crap that was cool but don’t do it again attitude. I guess it lit up all the screens in there and freaked them out.
You might want to explain what a GTS is as whatever it is doesn’t share the same acronym in the F-16 world. I worked the F-16 for 19 years and GTS doesn’t mean anything to me.
Back to the OP both drtbkj and Viking are correct in that the canopy is closed prior to engine start every time IRL in the USAF at least.
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GTS is gas turbine starter. I think it’s called a JFS on an F-16.
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It’s not a universal no-no, though. Only yesterday I watched a video of T-38s starting and taxiing with open canopies.
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GTS is gas turbine starter. I think it’s called a JFS on an F-16.
Yeah I’ve seen Navy/Marine terminology and it is completely different than the AF. Even at it’s most basic level. Any box you can replace on the aircraft while it is on the line to the AF is a LRU - Line Replaceable Unit. The Navy/Marines call it a WRA - Weapons Replaceable Assembly. Something to keep in mind when posting over here.
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It’s not a universal no-no, though. Only yesterday I watched a video of T-38s starting and taxiing with open canopies.
Last time I checked the T-38 wasn’t an F-16.
F-4s would also not close the canopy until shortly before takeoff thanks to the AC system not working that great on the ground. T-38 might be the same. Not an issue with the F-16 and closed canopies prevent any possible FOD from the cockpit getting to the engine.
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It’s not a universal no-no,
It’s a FOD issue. Imagine somthing dropping from the open canopy - pen, papaer whatever and getting sucked into the intake which for the F-16 is just under & aft
1 engine written off … -
Oh, I definitely agree it’s a no on the 16, just seemed to me that the discussion moved on to all types, seeing as the harrier was mentioned.
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On Ramp starts, and “true” simmers always do, when do you fellows close the canopy? When is in done IRL?
I normally close the canopy after engine start, but if it’s a nice day, I’ll close it after my jet is all configured and I have clearance to taxi to the active.
Seriously: when it’s open.
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Immediately before hitting JFS Start. As said above, it’s SOP to have the canopy closed before engine start to avoid and cockpit items being blown out and sucked into the intake.
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It is SOP to close the canopy before engine start. Starting the A/C with the canopy open is a big no-no. During training it is made very clear to always close the canopy first due to engine or GTS failure. If the GTS fails on a Harrier it often shoots oil out the top and can fall into the cockpit if the canopy is open. I had a failed GTS one time and it shot a fireball out of the main engine because the GTS was not spinning the turbines, so the fuel pooled in the can and click-click-click BOOOOOM. That’s when I learned why they teach you emergency shut down until it’s habit. I reached for the manual fuel shutoff very quickly. The crew on the ground looked freaked out when I got out and told me it was the biggest fireball anyone had ever seen up close. It lit up the night brighter than day time. Maintenance control had a holy crap that was cool but don’t do it again attitude. I guess it lit up all the screens in there and freaked them out.
Were you in the Air Force?
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It’s not a definite “no” for the F-16, but as Red Dog said, it usually is closed right before engine start.
This is PROCEDURE (-1):
It’s Step 8 in the Before Starting Engine checklist: 8. Canopy - As desired.
There are also some NOTEs, WARNINGs and CAUTIONs about this step as well. Here’s a couple, but not all of them.
CAUTION
• To prevent possible engine damage, stow or
secure loose cockpit items prior to engine start
with the canopy not closed.NOTE
Lowering or raising the canopy while the JFS
is operating may result in a failed JFS start or
premature JFS shutdown due to a reduction in
electrical power available to the JFS.Their techniques manual (NOT procedure, but generally accepted as the ‘way’ or ‘standard’ to do things) says:
• During hot weather, it is acceptable to start the engine with the canopy open.
• Prior to start, ensure all loose items are stowed (lineup cards and other mission materials,
and map light) to prevent engine foreign object damage (FOD) or foreign object in the
cockpit. If outside temperature is not a factor, close the canopy prior to engine start. -
Were you in the Air Force?
He was probably in the Navy or the Marines. Pretty sure the AF never used the harrier.
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thats not true, the royal air force flew harriers, did they not?
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For Harriers it is always closed on startup. The intake is large and right below the cockpit. It sucks a lot. When a sortie is about to go out, you know they are about to start up when they start closing their cockpit. You start to know things after a while just being salty. One of those things is how if it’s not raining the canopy closes right before startup. So the ground crew can smoke and joke a bit with their ear protection off until they see the canopy close or hear it.
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…unless you’re on X-C and have to kick-start it. Fly Marines!
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thats not true, the royal air force flew harriers, did they not?
Talking about the USAF not ANY AF.
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Talking about the USAF not ANY AF.
The Royal Air Force is THE Air Force, not just any Air Force. Think about it - the RAF is the only Air Force on Gods Green which doesn’t need to include the name of the country it serves in its name. USAF, RAAF, ROKAF, RCAF, PAF, RSAF… the list goes on and on, but when anyone mentions the RAF, everyone knows where it is from. Just saying…
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Yeap the RAAF is the one…
Man RAF and RAAF r the same… So…Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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It must be type dependant, F-4s regularly taxied with canopies open, often not closing them until shortly before taking the runway. And opening the canopies as soon as technically possible. Probably something to do with the Phantom’s crappy A/C.