Online BMS Training?
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In my sig.
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I‘m toying with the idea of creating an online Training site where folks from every experience level can learn what they want and when they want. From takeoff & landing to advanced (Tac Form, mission planning RL AAR SOP, navigation, tactics etc.)
Not a wing, no membership, no Air Force or rules/regs….simply casual MP learning by a very patient and understanding IP(s). A fun place to learn without some of the pressures from a typical Wing. No combat flights.
Anyone think there would be any interest or added value?
***UOAF (United Operations Air Force) is also a great place to learn with excellent people & instructors.I find myself in the same seat at this time and do about the same with a couple guys, albeit within our wing structure.
The problem I faced with my experience of teaching others is the commitment of the trainees, and also the frustration you as an IP may feel when you train ppl who Don’t commit seriously to training.
It’s very hard to get guys comitted to learn deep BMS, usually when you get one (as I am blessed I have a couple for the moment) these guys are already quite efficient and look to become even better.But I feel your message, and I often debated the same idea of 1 to 1 commitment for training.
In that respect, I Don’t feel that the Falcon Lounge is an answer. At least not to me and I suspect not to you either.It’s a shame the time difference won’t help, because I would step up and offer help to train guys as you described.
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In the respect of casual sessions, the Lounge is an answer. For a long-term follow-up, it is not indeed. I’m not sure from Stalker’s message, but he wrote casual.
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Online training sounds really cool and i think a lot of people are interested. The easy part is creating the missions, well easy. You can use the training TE’s or with some effort create your own.
But then comes the hard part: getting the IP and trainees together. The timezone is one issue, but the biggest is getting them together structurally. A one shot training event can be arranged with some effort, but training people in multiple events can be quite a pain, as real-life and lack of motivations quite often gets in the way. So you end up with trainees with different levels of experience and knowledge, making it harder to give a proper training. And as Red Dog mentioned, having people in the session is great, but without a more or less similar level of dedication (offline practicing, reading references) you won’t get anywhere. Casual training can be done and is done in eg Falcon Lounge or UOAF. I admire the optimism and perseverance of the IPs there to keep doing this. They put in quite some time and enthusiasm, but quite often their trainees simple disappear after one or two sessions.
As such, you see this dedicated training mostly in virtual squadrons which require IQTs to get in, to show your dedication. And even in those squadrons, it still takes quite some effort to get everything organised.
It could be an idea though, to create some sort of Chinese menu (sorry Dutch expression?). So you list various training missions, define the learning objective and required skills and let IP and trainees sign up. Eg a trainee can ask for a ILS landing training at date and time x and then an IP can react and you have a date. Or an IP can offer a training at a set date and time. Some sort of training market place? You could even add feedback scores for the IP and trainee to get some sort of quality in this.
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This exists in the French community for instance.
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What we need is a B course flight school, an independent wing, that once pilots have passed, get help in finding the right wing for them ie…location, time zones, nights of wing flights ect …
Ooohhhh you could also have a weapons training school, for those experienced pilots that can be selected from their VFW . On performance, or for dedicated members ie logged flight hours ? They then bring what they have learned to their VFW …my vote is for… lol -
56th, WWI.
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For Time zones, BMS pilots index in F4BMS Ready Room
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What we need is a B course flight school, an independent wing, that once pilots have passed, get help in finding the right wing for them ie…location, time zones, nights of wing flights ect …
Ooohhhh you could also have a weapons training school, for those experienced pilots that can be selected from their VFW . On performance, or for dedicated members ie logged flight hours ? They then bring what they have learned to their VFW …my vote is for… lolThere’s been a few attempts at stuff along these lines. The difficulty is finding people to put time into this for free. And, to keep doing this, over and over again with new students, students who often have enough interest to rock up most of the time, but rarely if ever crack open a manual to study the material. The solution to retain flight instructors for real is to pay them, and get them hours they need for a better job in a few years time… Not really something convenient for BMS really.
A Fighter Weapons School idea is neat, but IRL it works because you have enough top notch instructors that you can collect the best of the best, and set them to the task of improving the best instructors. I don’t see it working for BMS, for much the same reasons that training squadrons generally haven’t had much success. It’s hard enough to train up members, and retain them over time - a dedicated training squadron attempts to train up pilots and then expect them to leave for another group!
Would be more viable if the barrier for entry was lower, or if there were more people interested in studying like it’s their job, for a hobby.
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This exists in the French community for instance.
Cool! Where can I find it? Check six? Could be a great reference
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Absolutely, CheckSix, École de Chasse.
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When I was with the 20th, they flew when I was at work. Now , I see the 56th as a possibility, which I’m following up with. I looked toward VFA-141, which is cool for me since they fly the Hornet. But, I’m a little leery as their site wants me to add Chrome extensions. I would appreciate any input on that.
The enemy of this training concept is time. I have no problem RTFM’ing and “doing the homework” . I actually enjoy that, and I’m sure a lot of people feel the same. The thing is, I BMS almost daily, but it may be early morning one time, and last night the next. That fact is not from a lack of dedication, just the intrusion of the other things in my life. I’m sure a lot of us here are in the same boat. My formation flying sucks because I can’t practice it. That’s just one reason I’d love to fly with real people.Practicing formation with an AI is an exercise in “where the heck is he going now?” But, I digress.
You see those adds on tv where you buy an exercise machine, and you get access to a 24/7 trainer. I think to myself, wouldn’t it be cool if we could do that for BMS. But, like Blu said, those guys get paid -
Sorry not sure I was that clear. I’ve always enjoyed Training/teaching as much or more then making stuff go boom. Reason I got the idea is there are so many folks asking questions and while yes RTFM is there too, I like flying with others in a fun MP environment. I’ve been flying BMS since 2013 and I’ve never been to the Falcon Lounge, I’ve spent most of my years with virtual fighter wings (3). I‘m sure the Lounge is great and a great place to learn. Sometimes other options to learn and fly might be nice, too.
@Red Dog…first & foremost thank you for everything BMS. I get your point, but this is a different model. I don’t care if someone doesn’t commit to a training because there is no training syllabus per se, unless someone wants that. If someone just wants to practice one thing and move on, great! Totally up to that Individual. You want to do some KOTAR RANGE OPS and hit the tanker then split, outstanding! More time for me to help out Others. Maybe you just want to walk through some AA tactics on the Whiteboard once and that’s it…GREAT. Ya Get to meet new people and make new friends. :drink:
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Sorry not sure I was that clear. I’ve always enjoyed Training/teaching as much or more then making stuff go boom. Reason I got the idea is there are so many folks asking questions and while yes RTFM is there too, I like flying with others in a fun MP environment. I’ve been flying BMS since 2013 and I’ve never been to the Falcon Lounge, I’ve spent most of my years with virtual fighter wings (3). I‘m sure the Lounge is great and a great place to learn. Sometimes other options to learn and fly might be nice, too.
@Red Dog…first & foremost thank you for everything BMS. I get your point, but this is a different model. I don’t care if someone doesn’t commit to a training because there is no training syllabus per se, unless someone wants that. If someone just wants to practice one thing and move on, great! Totally up to that Individual. You want to do some KOTAR RANGE OPS and hit the tanker then split, outstanding! More time for me to help out Others. Maybe you just want to walk through some AA tactics on the Whiteboard once and that’s it…GREAT. Ya Get to meet new people and make new friends. :drink:
Good Day, Everyone, and Merry Christmas.
Stalker, I agree with everything you say, and it’s got me to thinking. First, let me give the disclaimer that I have never hosted a MP and only visited a few times. So, critique is welcome on my idea. Anyway, I RTFM’d the BMS Manual and starting on p.81 it discusses MP.
Let’s say we wanted to get together for a Twoship, and I’ll use myself as an example. I just did a speedtest and got values of 30 ms PING,21.28 Mbps download, and 4.18 Mbps Upload. Per the Manual, that sounds more the enough for 2 people. So let’s say I make the IP address, etc., and set myself up to host.
Now, here’s the new part of my idea-what if there is a dedicated thread (maybe in Base Ops or Community or wherever) where anyone interested in flying with someone can go . So, in our “Flight Buddies” section I could enter a “Profile” . It could contain the pertinent info. “Hi, I’m Joe. I fly BMS Hornet-C and Viper, Korea or Balkans. Medium skill level, but looking to improve formation flying. Looking for FB , preferably for SEAD/DEAD. I live in UDT+8. Somewhat time flexible, best is Friday 2100 Pacific. I can Host” Someone who could and wanted to train someone could include that fact in their “profile”…
From there, we can start talking and PM’ing and off we go.
We’ve talked here about time being the enemy. But, with this kind of information exchange I don’t see how anyone interested couldn’t find someone with the same parameters. And just think how cool it would be to have even one FB for regular flights.
Like Stalker said-make new friends -
I‘m toying with the idea of creating an online Training site where folks from every experience level can learn what they want and when they want. From takeoff & landing to advanced (Tac Form, mission planning RL AAR SOP, navigation, tactics etc.)
Not a wing, no membership, no Air Force or rules/regs….simply casual MP learning by a very patient and understanding IP(s). A fun place to learn without some of the pressures from a typical Wing. No combat flights.
Anyone think there would be any interest or added value?
***UOAF (United Operations Air Force) is also a great place to learn with excellent people & instructors.
I think it sounds like a good idea and I think you’d get a lot of interest.
Just because something similar exists (Falcon Lounge, or whatever) doesn’t mean what you’re suggesting would be redundant. Personally, I think what you’re suggesting would be additive.
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I think it sounds like a good idea and I think you’d get a lot of interest.
Just because something similar exists (Falcon Lounge, or whatever) doesn’t mean what you’re suggesting would be redundant. Personally, I think what you’re suggesting would be additive.
I agree with this completely.
As part of the Falcon Lounge discord group, I try to promote it as a great place for people to get together and discuss learning the sim. There’s a wide variety of experience to draw from, and people from several time zones, so there’s almost always someone to respond to questions.
That said, it does not take the place of an actual hands on IP experience. I do try to put things like that together when I have time, but as anyone with a family can attest to, time is often in short supply.
If anyone would like a home to organize trainings, I’m sure MaxWaldorf would not mind me offering up the FL discord for this use. I’m sure Max could throw a couple extra channels together if needed to help facilitate.
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We’re a small group of 4-5 BMS virtual Viper drivers down here in NZ and if anyone in AU/NZ wants to fly with us on our private server, we’ll happily do so regardless of skill level or experience. We don’t really do PVP, we exclusively fly campaigns together (with difficulty level cranked up) and just enjoy pulling off a decent combat mission. Most flying is around 08:30 PM NZDT depending on real life commitments.
We’re definitely not Weapons School graduates ourselves (to put it mildly) but we don’t get our knickers in a twist if someone does something wrong or isn’t using the right jargon or anything and we’re more than happy to explain things to you while doing it.
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BMS is easy. What’s to train?
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