Grumbling about HAD
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Could be that the sa 10 was out of the HAD range so it may still be on the RWR but it show on the HAD. Or sometimes on the HAD it may be overlapped by a search radar and hard to see. Have to zoom in on the HAD to see it distinct from the search radar.
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Until 4.34 I kind of had my own SOP for taking out an SA-10 site with Harms. Get to almost 35k, fly right up to trespass point on the threat radius and let the HARM fly, then fly the edge of the threat radius ready to evade if necessary. I was always able to target the 10 in the HAD well before I reached trespass. In 4.34 even at 35k I had the 10 in the RWR but not the HAD, this happened to me in TE not campaign. I gave up on going after the 10 with HARM’s and changed my tactic to terrain masking and doing a pop up attack with JSOW’s. It did not seem right to me that the RWR could pick up the threat and the sensor dedicated to picking up ground radar emitters could not. I did see a few posts talking about HARMs after the new release and that in RL HARMs rarely ever killed a SAM radar. I just assumed the Dev’s reduced the targeting capabilities. Especially since in RL an SA-10 has the capability to target an incoming HARM and BMS is not modeled to do so. Just my two cents on this topic, not based on anything other than my observations.
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Can not confirm but I sure have found out last night how ineffective HARMs can be in general. Miss after miss even when shooting at active SAMs. Makes it much more satisfying gunning them though!
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Currently flying mostly Israeli theaters. So satisfying to have MITL weapons. Release from 70 NM. Circle for up to 23min over the target area. ID the SAM visually and take them out regardless of active or not.
So basically any SEAD becomes DEADGesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
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Good Day, All, and thanks for replying.
Lorik, my question is: why did the Sa-10 not show up on HAD when it did on RWR? I got a “10”, then a " boxed 10" on RWR. All I got on HAD was the “S” for the search radar . I know the -10 can shoot without a continuous indication on RWR or HAD, but I _never_got an indication. I literally had the HAD page up, was looking at the RWR indications, and there was nothing on HAD except S.
Sortofred, I don’t think so. I was at approx. 40 miles, well within the HARM WEZ.
Cantoo and Frixon, I concur with you. But, my question is not about HARM itself, but HAD function.
Oakdesign, I too think SEAD becoming DEAD, or the “it’s suppressed if it’s in a million pieces” mindset.
Guy’s, with me HAD is mainly a Situational Awareness tool. A lot of the times I’m not even shooting the HARM. I use the “little circle on the ground” as a start for radar/TGP/visual search. In our example here I locked HAD on the search radar as a “workaround”, but shouldn’t I get a 10 indication at some point?. I should mention I did go to EXP 2 on HAD and still did not get a 10. -
Good Day, All, and thanks for replying.
Lorik, my question is: why did the Sa-10 not show up on HAD when it did on RWR? I got a “10”, then a " boxed 10" on RWR. All I got on HAD was the “S” for the search radar . I know the -10 can shoot without a continuous indication on RWR or HAD, but I _never_got an indication. I literally had the HAD page up, was looking at the RWR indications, and there was nothing on HAD except S.
Sortofred, I don’t think so. I was at approx. 40 miles, well within the HARM WEZ.
Cantoo and Frixon, I concur with you. But, my question is not about HARM itself, but HAD function.
Oakdesign, I too think SEAD becoming DEAD, or the “it’s suppressed if it’s in a million pieces” mindset.
Guy’s, with me HAD is mainly a Situational Awareness tool. A lot of the times I’m not even shooting the HARM. I use the “little circle on the ground” as a start for radar/TGP/visual search. In our example here I locked HAD on the search radar as a “workaround”, but shouldn’t I get a 10 indication at some point?. I should mention I did go to EXP 2 on HAD and still did not get a 10.In BMS, 10 in outer circle is synonymous of 10 search radar, which light you up from very, very far, way beyond your HAD. The 10 FCR has a range of 50 nm. You can have it on your RWR in the inner circle when it’s guiding on something, you or not.
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Cantoo and Frixon, I concur with you. But, my question is not about HARM itself, but HAD function.
Yes, that was the point of me posting too. Why a 10 inside a diamond on the RWR but no indication in the HAD. The RWR differentiates between search and FCR radars, if the RWR can differentiate this and it’s doing exactly that at the same point in time you have the HAD up and the HAD is not differentiating/displaying in the same way, when at the correct range and the correct zoom is selected, why can’t the sensor, the HAD, dedicated to do this specifically not show this? I do believe this is the point of your original post.
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Yes, that was the point of me posting too. Why a 10 inside a diamond on the RWR but no indication in the HAD. The RWR differentiates between search and FCR radars, if the RWR can differentiate this and it’s doing exactly that at the same point in time you have the HAD up and the HAD is not differentiating/displaying in the same way, when at the correct range and the correct zoom is selected, why can’t the sensor, the HAD, dedicated to do this specifically not show this? I do believe this is the point of your original post.
Yes , Cantoo,and thanks. You’ve hit the nail on the head. As Lorik says, the RWR may detect the Grumble FCR beyond HAD range, but that’s not what is confusing me. In this example, I had a inner ring boxed 10 on my RWR at 40 mile range( I didn’t mention it before , but I cheated with labels :shock: ) and directly on my nose.All I got on HAD was- S. I’m obviously missing something, unless a Bug is in play, but for the life of me I can’t see what I’m doing wrong.
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The point is: Both the SA-10 EWR (Big Bird) and the FCR (Flap Lid) are both indicated on the RWR with a 10. There is no difference between the symbols, but the EWR will always be displayed on the outer ring and the FCR on the inner ring. Unless you see two 10s on your RWR, you are only painted by the EWR, the FCR is off.
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why did the Sa-10 not show up on HAD when it did on RWR? I got a “10”, then a " boxed 10" on RWR. All I got on HAD was the “S” for the search radar .
RWR and HTS are not the same device. Ar not working the same. Are not using the same libraries. Don’t have the same purposes.
And you are lucky that libraries/ambiguities are not fully modeled. Otherwise you could have an SA10 confused with another system … or SA2 … or EWR …
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Thanks for that graphic Dee-Jay! It’s fascinating/intimidating/terrifying all at the same time, but really gives a view on how the systems can (or can’t) differentiate emitters.
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The point is: Both the SA-10 EWR (Big Bird) and the FCR (Flap Lid) are both indicated on the RWR with a 10. There is no difference between the symbols, but the EWR will always be displayed on the outer ring and the FCR on the inner ring. Unless you see two 10s on your RWR, you are only painted by the EWR, the FCR is off.
I did not know that thank you so much that explains a lot. Normally if I do not know the SA-10 location I just dive for the deck regardless but now I do not have too
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Thanks for that graphic Dee-Jay! It’s fascinating/intimidating/terrifying all at the same time, but really gives a view on how the systems can (or can’t) differentiate emitters.
Note than “values” or relations taken in account in the graph are just unrealistic examples.
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Dee-Jay what is PRI in that graph? I’m assuming RF is frequency and PW is pulse width… not sure though.
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Pulse Repetition Interval.
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I’m with Rob about that being a fascinating and terrifying graph. So, we’re saying that a locked on SA-10(as indicated on RWR) at 40 mile range directly ahead is not supposed to( or rather may not) show up on HAD beyond a “s”? Because that is exactly what happened. If it’s not , is that a “SA-10 thing”? The reason I ask is last night I had SA-2 and AAA lock-ons , and on HAD I got the red boxed number/letter I expected.
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Another important tip: There is no launch warning for the SA-10. There is no way to distinguish between a guiding and a non-guiding Flap Lid. If you are painted by a Flap Lid, you should always assume that there are missiles in the air. Also, the SA-10 missiles have a very short burn time, so you won’t be able to see the missiles in midair, only on launch (which is hard to impossible to see in the distance).