Solved JSOW AGM-154A PROBLEM
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I am wondering if it just me or if BMD Falcon 4.36 has drastically changed the potency of the beloved JSOW. I have locked up a ground target i.e., SA-2 battalion. And I waited to release until I was within 20 nautical miles of the target and at an altitude of FL250. I fired a pair of AGM-154A with a double release. I couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. No damage to the battalion. I created a tactical engagement to test this, and I never hit anything during six sorties against this battalion.
With 4.35 I used to rack up dozens of destroyed SAM sites with these babies.
This 4.36 however, is still my favorite pastime.
Thanks, BMS Team
Raven
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To give a bit more detail about this. When JSOWs were introduced a long time ago, the bomb code was hacked into the missile code for the final phase. The code was duplicated.
As time passed by, bomb code evolved, but jsow was forgotten. Yes, code duplication is evil.
In 4.35 it was using a mix of old code with new database, resulting in huge vales for lethality and radius.
In 4.36, the code was unified. So in the final phase the jsow uses the same logic as a bomb, using egea intead of BA. Which bomb? CBU 87.
Now one might say: but jsow has 150 bomblets, it must be powerful. Well, CBU 87 has 200. So jsow is still overpowered.
Basically you can do with a jsow the same as with the CBU 87 now. But it is more precise.
In JSOW TE I could get 4-7 kills with a single one. Very similar to CBU, which I usually got less due to lower precision.
There was also a bug regarding EGEA computation, which was using inverted logic for terrain altitude. I have tested this, but if you think this is broken I can double check.
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According to internal discussions, JSOWs have been completely reworked they are not god weapons anymore and will have the same effect as a conventional cluster bomb…
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@MaxWaldorf @Raven8tr I just hopped into TR#15 to test … I confirm, on my acmi it looks like each JSOW just impacted a single unit in the middle of the column(s) I targeted.
Is the EGEA parameter intended to be barometric MSL or AGL elevation?
The training doc implies AGL but I’m not sure. I think I left egea at the default 700ft … and iirc the target columns are at around 1200 ft elevation, so maybe that’s my problem.
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Hi all,
It seems to confirm my own tests with CB-105.
The burst altitude setting seems ignored and as @airtex2019 , i always hit a single vehicle in a column despite different heights : 500 feet to 3000 feet.
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@ericfa2a said in JSOW AGM-154A PROBLEM:
Hi all,
It seems to confirm my own tests with CB-105.
The burst altitude setting seems ignored and as @airtex2019 , i always hit a single vehicle in a column despite different heights : 500 feet to 3000 feet.
Well that’s not right… I used to love using that weapon on a column, 1500’ BA, would target #3/#7/#11/#14 and pretty much wipe out 1-20…
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@Icer Hi Icer, so there is a problem from my side, but in 4.35, i I don’t recall having this problem.
I will try again … but i have already done 4-5 tests these past days with this weapon and i was wondering where was the problem…
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Jsow was almost a nuke in previous version. Now it behaves very similar to a CBU. Its area and strength was something like 10-100 times bigger than it should.
In 4.35, a single Jsow would probably wipe an entire airbase. Now it will kill a few units, just like it is supposed to be.
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@Icer Complete reinstall of 4.36 solves the problem for me. I don’t know what’s was the problem because i have done a clean install of 4.36 previously… So, mystery…
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To give a bit more detail about this. When JSOWs were introduced a long time ago, the bomb code was hacked into the missile code for the final phase. The code was duplicated.
As time passed by, bomb code evolved, but jsow was forgotten. Yes, code duplication is evil.
In 4.35 it was using a mix of old code with new database, resulting in huge vales for lethality and radius.
In 4.36, the code was unified. So in the final phase the jsow uses the same logic as a bomb, using egea intead of BA. Which bomb? CBU 87.
Now one might say: but jsow has 150 bomblets, it must be powerful. Well, CBU 87 has 200. So jsow is still overpowered.
Basically you can do with a jsow the same as with the CBU 87 now. But it is more precise.
In JSOW TE I could get 4-7 kills with a single one. Very similar to CBU, which I usually got less due to lower precision.
There was also a bug regarding EGEA computation, which was using inverted logic for terrain altitude. I have tested this, but if you think this is broken I can double check.
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@Seifer Re: JSOW AGM-154A PROBLEM[link text]
So seems like kill zone for a JSOW is limited to a smaller range than we used to compared to 4,35. Still from real videos seem like the blast zone should take out multiple vehicles if they are in close range with each other…
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@APOLLO-11 and it does. Try the JSOW TE and see if you cannot hit more than one vehicle.
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According to Wikipedia (I know!) a single CBU-87 can create a kill-zone of 20x20 meters, or up to 120x240 meters, which roughly corresponds to two football (soccer) fields.
The footprint on the ground is highly dependent on burst altitude, spin setting and so on.
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@Seifer just did in KTO campaign! It works! JSOW does take out2-3 vehicles in close proximity with each other. Seems ok to me!
One more thing to ask if you noticed (but maybe not relevant with the thread)
AI wingmen when instructed to engage AG targets with “ENGAGE MY TARGET” and “ENGAGE TARGETS” command wont react and continue to fly in formation. Any ideas? -
@APOLLO-11 said in JSOW AGM-154A PROBLEM:
@Seifer just did in KTO campaign! It works! JSOW does take out2-3 vehicles in close proximity with each other. Seems ok to me!
One more thing to ask if you noticed (but maybe not relevant with the thread)
AI wingmen when instructed to engage AG targets with “ENGAGE MY TARGET” and “ENGAGE TARGETS” command wont react and continue to fly in formation. Any ideas?Are these targets you are locked on or just in general?
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@APOLLO-11 the formation command expert is @Mav-jp .
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@Icer I have flown several times with 4ship formation (human leader + 3 AI wingman - Element).
Mission is BARCAP (so no AG fixed target) but i have armed all 4 ac with JSOW or GBU-12 for taking out ground targets of opportunity (SAM launchers, trucks, AAA, Armor).
When located i tried to instruct AI wingmen to engage but with no success.
Targets are locked both with radar lock as well as locked with TGP when order “ENGAGE MY TARGET” or “ENGAGE TARGETS” issued.
This was not the case until 4,35. In 4,36 AI behavior in this task is changed. -
Don’t forget that the BA (Burst Altitude) is calculated from sea level
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@APOLLO-11 said in JSOW AGM-154A PROBLEM:
@Icer I have flown several times with 4ship formation (human leader + 3 AI wingman - Element).
Mission is BARCAP (so no AG fixed target) but i have armed all 4 ac with JSOW or GBU-12 for taking out ground targets of opportunity (SAM launchers, trucks, AAA, Armor).
When located i tried to instruct AI wingmen to engage but with no success.
Targets are locked both with radar lock as well as locked with TGP when order “ENGAGE MY TARGET” or “ENGAGE TARGETS” issued.
This was not the case until 4,35. In 4,36 AI behavior in this task is changed.BARCAP so they won’t do AG.
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@LorikEolmin so if there is no dedicated steer point for AG task AI wont engage ground targets? Simple as that?
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@MaxWaldorf - that sounds like the way it should be - pretty much a long range Mk20 - for JSOW A.