F16 Stall
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Somehow I flew outside the flight envelope. My F16 stall. š„²
Clean F16C block 30, at 20,000 ft. -
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@gmcustomsauces said in F16 Stall:
Somehow I flew outside the flight envelope. My F16 stall.
Clean F16C block 30, at 20,000 ft.Yep, realistic F-16 Deep stall. Itās a feature not a bug
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@gmcustomsauces time to hit the books. Study Deep Stalls, Departures, and Manual Pitch Override. Your engine sounds are so loud they are drowning out the stall horn blaring at youā¦
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Yes - youāve encountered a Viper Deep Stall. When I first started flying BMS, I spent most (nearly all) of my time working on low speed flying qualities/handling.
Being able to recover from a deep stall quickly and not induce a secondary stall is a critical skill in dogfighting - especially in a close in, turning fight. Takes practice. As folks are saying - hit the books, study the video demo, practice the HART maneuver. A lot.
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Can the Viper go into a spin? Iāve never encountered one, but maybe some of you have had one?
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@Supernova said in F16 Stall:
Can the Viper go into a spin? Iāve never encountered one, but maybe some of you have had one?
The digital f16 flcs prevents any spin
The analog f16 flcs though does not protect against inverted spin
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@Mav-jp
Do we have analog flcs modeled? In case itās not there (which is most probably the case) how hard it would be to tweak existing flcs code to simulate analog one for A/B models?
Iām guessing no money/beverages/other fancy stuff on the world could bribe you into doing one (also if I was able to do that, iād rather try to trick you into doing hornet/M2k/Grippen flcs ). -
@Mav-jp
Do we have analog flcs modeled? In case itās not there (which is most probably the case) how hard it would be to tweak existing flcs code to simulate analog one for A/B models?
Iām guessing no money/beverages/other fancy stuff on the world could bribe you into doing one (also if I was able to do that, iād rather try to trick you into doing hornet/M2k/Grippen flcs ).You really think I spent 15 years of my life on the f16 FL and forgot to differentiate analog and digital flcs ?
Come on !
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@Mav-jp
Lovely thank you.
Now letās talk other figters flcs ā¦ (just joking I know youāre busy man) -
@Supernova - yes, the Viper can spin. Back when I was a very active skydiver we had a pilot that was also an active F-16 Test Pilot at Edwardsā¦one day he brought and showed us a HUD tape from a spin test he did (clean wing) that nearly got away from him because the airplane did not recover as planned, and his spin chute failed to deploy - sent a chill up my spine hearing ānegative chuteā over the COMs from the Chase. He eventually did recover at about 6Kā¦which was a good margin below where he should have ejected (out of control or spinning below 10K). Learned a number of things from watching that tape that Iāve since employed flying RL Trainers - and BMS.
Iāve encountered spins in BMS tying to do tail slides (clean wing) - the inverted one is extremely violent and reds out very quickly. I havenāt found a way to recover from that one, being blind from the red out. Recovery from the upright one is similar to recovering from a deep stall - and even then, you tend to recover around 6 to 8K after you get into thicker air. BTW - the AOA Limiter pretty much prevents you from doing a tail slide in the Viperā¦
The BMS Viper is certainly departure resistant, but like any airplane you can get it to spin if you aggravate it. The BMS Viper flight model models spin and AOA hangup very nicely, but you have to know both how to recognize what is happening, and/or enter the desired maneuver.
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yes, the Viper can spin. Back when I was a very active skydiver we had a pilot that was also an active F-16 Test Pilot at Edwardsā¦one day he brought and showed us a HUD tape from a spin test he did (clean wing) that nearly got away from him because the airplane did not recover as planned, and his spin chute failed to deploy - sent a chill up my spine hearing ānegative chuteā over the COMs from the Chase. He eventually did recover at about 6Kā¦which was a good margin below where he should have ejected (out of control or spinning below 10K). Learned a number of things from watching that tape that Iāve since employed flying RL Trainers - and BMS.
Iāve encountered spins in BMS tying to do tail slides (clean wing) - the inverted one is extremely violent and reds out very quickly. I havenāt found a way to recover from that one, being blind from the red out. Recovery from the upright one is similar to recovering from a deep stall - and even then, you tend to recover around 6 to 8K after you get into thicker air. BTW - the AOA Limiter pretty much prevents you from doing a tail slide in the Viperā¦
The BMS Viper is certainly departure resistant, but like any airplane you can get it to spin if you aggravate it. The BMS Viper flight model models spin and AOA hangup very nicely, but you have to know both how to recognize what is happening, and/or enter the desired maneuver.I tried to go into a spin, and on different aircraft. It didnāt work. Only on the F-15 did something very weird happen. I got up to about 20 feet, and the nose of the plane started to turn to the right. I tried to correct it, but my yaw only continued to accelerate. Then my pitch started to increase. And thenā¦ Well, I donāt know how to describe it. My plane started falling. Tail down. The F-15 stopped spinning, but I couldnāt stop falling. The negative airspeed was increasing. And then the IAS increased to 1,000. Then I got a redout and the game stop. The speed reading was something like 1145689 and the G was -569021.
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@Supernova - yes. That sounds like what Iāve heard called a āfalling leafā. I donāt really know much about F-15s, even though I began my career REALLY wanting to work on themā¦have never gotten to do so, but one more thing with an aircraft that size is that inertial effects can also come into play if the motion isnāt halted promptly.
The usual entry into a spin is a stall, an then to kick the rudder over in the direction you want to spin. With a lot of modern flight controls the yaw rate will be damped to prevent departure, so you may end up fighting your way into the spinā¦and then back out of it.
When I was working T-45A and getting a lot of Trainer time I kept trying to get the Trainer to spin and could not do it - the spec for the jet was for it to be spinable, but in Navalizing the Hawk it became VERY departure resistant. You had to really know what you were doing to get it into a spin - I watched one of our Test Pilots do it, but was never able to do it myselfā¦intentionallyā¦
ā¦until I got the rudder to enter breakout during one session - I nearly had both feet on the left rudder as the forces built up as I tried to force the spin, then I head a loud BANG and after a bit realized the rudder was free. So then I couldnāt recover per my experience because I had no ability to input rudderā¦but I remembered that F-16 spin test HUD tape Iād seen years ago and hung on until I was below 8K, at which point I was able to get the nose down and rebuild some airspeed, relight the engine, and recover at about 2K. Once the forces subsided I got my rudder back.
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@Supernova said in F16 Stall:
yes, the Viper can spin. Back when I was a very active skydiver we had a pilot that was also an active F-16 Test Pilot at Edwardsā¦one day he brought and showed us a HUD tape from a spin test he did (clean wing) that nearly got away from him because the airplane did not recover as planned, and his spin chute failed to deploy - sent a chill up my spine hearing ānegative chuteā over the COMs from the Chase. He eventually did recover at about 6Kā¦which was a good margin below where he should have ejected (out of control or spinning below 10K). Learned a number of things from watching that tape that Iāve since employed flying RL Trainers - and BMS.
Iāve encountered spins in BMS tying to do tail slides (clean wing) - the inverted one is extremely violent and reds out very quickly. I havenāt found a way to recover from that one, being blind from the red out. Recovery from the upright one is similar to recovering from a deep stall - and even then, you tend to recover around 6 to 8K after you get into thicker air. BTW - the AOA Limiter pretty much prevents you from doing a tail slide in the Viperā¦
The BMS Viper is certainly departure resistant, but like any airplane you can get it to spin if you aggravate it. The BMS Viper flight model models spin and AOA hangup very nicely, but you have to know both how to recognize what is happening, and/or enter the desired maneuver.I tried to go into a spin, and on different aircraft. It didnāt work. Only on the F-15 did something very weird happen. I got up to about 20 feet, and the nose of the plane started to turn to the right. I tried to correct it, but my yaw only continued to accelerate. Then my pitch started to increase. And thenā¦ Well, I donāt know how to describe it. My plane started falling. Tail down. The F-15 stopped spinning, but I couldnāt stop falling. The negative airspeed was increasing. And then the IAS increased to 1,000. Then I got a redout and the game stop. The speed reading was something like 1145689 and the G was -569021.
F15 in BMS is OFM , stalls or spin are therefore entirely scripted and totally fake
Only f16 has a correct stall modƩlisation , it has actually a VERY accurate modƩlisation because BMS whole FM is based on nasa TP1538 which purpose was to study stalls and post stalls recoveries
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@Mav-jp - which is why I only pay any real real attention to the BMS Viper, and disregard anything else.
OTOH - all of the F-15 Test Pilots I used to know said the flight model for the F-15 in the old Janes sim was spot-onā¦so if you want to fool around with Eagles, get the old Janes sim up and running.
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@Mav-jp - which is why I only pay any real real attention to the BMS Viper, and disregard anything else.
OTOH - all of the F-15 Test Pilots I used to know said the flight model for the F-15 in the old Janes sim was spot-onā¦so if you want to fool around with Eagles, get the old Janes sim up and running.
F16 pilot said the falcon 4.0 flight model was spot on
This is called āmarketingā
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@Mav-jp - whatās actually pretty good about Falcon 4.0 (and Allied Force) is the dynamics BETWEEN fighters - which differs a bit in BMS. Iāve met people that still use Allied Force professionally as a teaching tool for that reason aloneā¦and I even learned things from it that I hadnāt actually realized until they were pointed out to me by RL Instructor pilots.
The guys that endorsed the Janes sim to me were active F-15 Test Pilots at the timeā¦I didnāt get that endorsement second hand, I knew the actual guys.
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@Mav-jp - whatās actually pretty good about Falcon 4.0 (and Allied Force) is the dynamics BETWEEN fighters - which differs a bit in BMS. Iāve met people that still use Allied Force professionally as a teaching tool for that reason aloneā¦and I even learned things from it that I hadnāt actually realized until they were pointed out to me by RL Instructor pilots.
The guys that endorsed the Janes sim to me were active F-15 Test Pilots at the timeā¦I didnāt get that endorsement second hand, I knew the actual guys.
@Mav-jp - whatās actually pretty good about Falcon 4.0 (and Allied Force) is the dynamics BETWEEN fighters - which differs a bit in BMS. Iāve met people that still use Allied Force professionally as a teaching tool for that reason aloneā¦and I even learned things from it that I hadnāt actually realized until they were pointed out to me by RL Instructor pilots.
The guys that endorsed the Janes sim to me were active F-15 Test Pilots at the timeā¦I didnāt get that endorsement second hand, I knew the actual guys.
I played countless hours in Janes f15
Worst FM ever for f15
It is unable to pass Mach 1.5 clean config .(reinstall if you donāt believe me ;))
The handling was also very much like a 1997 simulatorā¦.
At that time (1997) I wrote a lot of emails to janes to complain, It is one reason I started to be involved in FM dev.
Apart from FM, janes f15 was a blast though
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@Mav-jp - pretty sure the F-15 Test Pilots I was working with at the time had a better āhandleā on it than any of us. Iāll stand by their opinions.