Santa's wishlist for BMS
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@jcook said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
Also, while turning at a steerpoint. How about a nice 30 degree turn, instead of rolling into an 80 degree bank and pulling 5Gs. makes it hard to stay in formation.
AI in navigation does NOT pull 5G from one steerpoint to another
they perform 2.0G turns in the worst case scenario
i suppose we could scale the bank angle / G to the distance to next waypoint (because if they turn too slow with close steerpoint they will end up in circle chasing their tail and missing the steerpoints all the time)
Another important point , if they turning rate is too slow, then they will oscillate too much around their final heading, not beeing able to stabilize. Believe me , i’ve been there to avoid heavies to have those issues.Unless for training scenari , NEVER should we make AI stick with one static airspeed because then it would absolutly RUIN the dynamic they are able to perform. The would entirely kill the whole engine…mark my words.
The AI lead brain is designed to make sure it can be on time on station when time on steerpoints are defined critical. They are able to dynamically adapt their speed , altitude and even skipping unecessary waypoint. Helping wingmen to fly like airbuses is not their priority i must admit.
As said, we could improve the smoothing and the comms though by announcing turns , speeds and climb changes
as always, it’s all a matter of priorities…and understanding of the whole picture
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@Mav-jp said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@jayb said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@jcook the main issue is that we use a different fight model than the AI. I have asked for an option to force the AI to use the same flight model for that same reason. Hope it could be possible, it would make training so much more realistic
That’s not true
The performance of AI is extremly close than player
Fly MP , one player OFM (this is what AI flies) other player AFM , you will see that you will have very very similar accel / decel /climbing / turn performances
The issue you see here is how the AI is handling navigation and how smooth (or lack of )they fly
Yeah, they definitely make some weird altitude jumps around steerpoint transitions. And almost always go briefly into burner.
I have noticed that AI is able to decelerate (slow down) very quickly using airbrakes which I am unable to match and therefore I overtake,
could that be flight model difference? -
@Mav-jp said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@jcook said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
Also, while turning at a steerpoint. How about a nice 30 degree turn, instead of rolling into an 80 degree bank and pulling 5Gs. makes it hard to stay in formation.
AI in navigation does NOT pull 5G from one steerpoint to another
they perform 2.0G turns in the worst case scenario
i suppose we could scale the bank angle / G to the distance to next waypoint (because if they turn too slow with close steerpoint they will end up in circle chasing their tail and missing the steerpoints all the time)
Another important point , if they turning rate is too slow, then they will oscillate too much around their final heading, not beeing able to stabilize. Believe me , i’ve been there to avoid heavies to have those issues.Unless for training scenari , NEVER should we make AI stick with one static airspeed because then it would absolutly RUIN the dynamic they are able to perform. The would entirely kill the whole engine…mark my words.
The AI lead brain is designed to make sure it can be on time on station when time on steerpoints are defined critical. They are able to dynamically adapt their speed , altitude and even skipping unecessary waypoint. Helping wingmen to fly like airbuses is not their priority i must admit.
As said, we could improve the smoothing and the comms though by announcing turns , speeds and climb changes
Yes, if they could announce turns etc. that would be a major improvement!
And I don’t think anyone wants to fly an Airbus - as wingmen we would like to be able to follow the lead as best as possible regardless of his maneuvers, the ability to do that is what the training is intended to improve
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What about having St. Nick available to build a TE to escort him on his way across the globe?
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I would like to have default external view howling wind have replaced with some mild warm breeze - preflight check of my jet is chilling me to the bones
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@jayb said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
Yes, if they could announce turns etc. that would be a major improvement!
Not really. Simply because it would not be realistic and counter productive.
Pilots monitor the freq and don’t send calls for “nothing”. As a wing-man (in formation), you are supposed to padlock the lead, and follow him as imitation.
Such announcements are only for aerobatics formation displays when many a/c are on the wing (to anticipate the throttle adjustments, not for the bank/turn itself.I don’t think it would be a good idea my friend (if we aim for pure realism).
Thanks to existing AI brain (smoothness of trajectories, expect on some rare cases as you already know such as IP, and some climb/descent phases), a/c are already quite easy to follow.
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add the exhaust smoke of some fighters known for that
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@Dee-Jay
Thanks, and I know that you are doing this for real so I have the utmost respect for your input. I certainly don’t mind a challenge in keeping formation. And I generally agree that announcements are a luxury, not something one should expect.And maybe announcements are not the solution when flying with the AI. But around steerpoints they perform some manouvers where it is hard to keep formation. Steep climbs or descents, sudden use of AB. I suspect this could be their flight model which is different from humans, but Mav-jp says that should not matter. I have just noticed that when he kicks in the afterburners, if I do it just moments later he outruns me.
I would love to be proven wrong and my skills just need improvement. If someone could show a video of flying fingertip (or just 0.1 nm route) with the AI lead in a tanker intercept, eg. the AAR training mission, I would be very impressed and definitely practice even more. Another challenge for a formation video would be to follow the AI lead closely on approach from 30nm out through a couple of steerpoints.
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@jayb
Hi!
Some time ago I haven’t launched the sim, but as far as I remember, I had no issues following the IA flight lead, except in rare cases (IP on attack runs, final turn before reaching IP for overhead approach ) -
@Dee-Jay said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@jayb
Hi!
Some time ago I haven’t launched the sim, but as far as I remember, I had no issues following the IA flight lead, except in rare cases (IP on attack runs, final turn before reaching IP for overhead approach )If I was so badly minded, I would say flying a F15 to test formation with AI is not exactly relevant. Give us a F16 repro case.
Yes, there’s a joke inside.
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Same experience here… and try to guess with what craft, now? (hint, hint)
Sorry for not having thought in time to make an ACMI to track that, though.With best regards.
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@LorikEolmin said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@Dee-Jay said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@jayb
Hi!
Some time ago I haven’t launched the sim, but as far as I remember, I had no issues following the IA flight lead, except in rare cases (IP on attack runs, final turn before reaching IP for overhead approach )If I was so badly minded, I would say flying a F15 to test formation with AI is not exactly relevant. Give us a F16 repro case.
Yes, there’s a joke inside.
It was not F-15 but F-16 (Tacview DB wasn’t up to date with our Dev version)
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@Dee-Jay said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@jayb said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
Yes, if they could announce turns etc. that would be a major improvement!
Not really. Simply because it would not be realistic and counter productive.
Pilots monitor the freq and don’t send calls for “nothing”. As a wing-man (in formation), you are supposed to padlock the lead, and follow him as imitation.
Such announcements are only for aerobatics formation displays when many a/c are on the wing (to anticipate the throttle adjustments, not for the bank/turn itself.I don’t think it would be a good idea my friend (if we aim for pure realism).
Thanks to existing AI brain (smoothness of trajectories, expect on some rare cases as you already know such as IP, and some climb/descent phases), a/c are already quite easy to follow.
Yeah well they could at least announce in navigation mode
“Heads up , push steerpoint x” , ref altitude 20 ,
400kts before doing itAnd we can smooth better turns and altitude changes
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@Mav-jp said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@Dee-Jay said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
@jayb said in Santa’s wishlist for BMS:
Yes, if they could announce turns etc. that would be a major improvement!
Not really. Simply because it would not be realistic and counter productive.
Pilots monitor the freq and don’t send calls for “nothing”. As a wing-man (in formation), you are supposed to padlock the lead, and follow him as imitation.
Such announcements are only for aerobatics formation displays when many a/c are on the wing (to anticipate the throttle adjustments, not for the bank/turn itself.I don’t think it would be a good idea my friend (if we aim for pure realism).
Thanks to existing AI brain (smoothness of trajectories, expect on some rare cases as you already know such as IP, and some climb/descent phases), a/c are already quite easy to follow.
Yeah well they could at least announce in navigation mode
“Heads up , push steerpoint x” , ref altitude 20 ,
400kts before doing itAnd we can smooth better turns and altitude changes
That would be awesome.
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@Mav-jp
Do what you like.
I am simply telling that it serves nothing at all (it is just a placebo for some ppl who think they will be better in formation fliht because lead makes anoucmemts, but I can ensure you that it is nothing but placebo.
It will occupy frequency for nothing usefull and may mask some important other calls.
The ONLY situation where is “may” be releve t is in spread (line abreast) formation with a large lateral spacing when visual reference becomes weak. (but one still knows what heading, alt and speed referring to nav log).On another subject, better have the AI wingman not overtaking/“passing in font of” the lead during turns.
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Just a personal thought right now: couldn’t let to think differently than an experienced pilot.
There are some main tactical matters involved indeed:- situational awareness, and thus
- think it before it happens and how to react to keep (or gain again) tactical initiative
- never be taken by surprise
- always try to balance and adapt what you expected to accomplish with your plan with enemy’s reaction, which will get rid of it almost immediately.
Not surprisingly, those principles above are true not for air operations only, but in any operative context.
Just my own one cent, nothing more or else.
With best regards and season wishes to all of you, Gentlemen.
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A wonderful gift could be … 4.37.0 Trailer in 4K
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1.A missionised F-16D Trainer with shared cockpit ,could be a very nice add-on for BMS 4.3X
and off course with new 3D technology in upcoming BMS version a
- HSD moving map with LINK16 will rock the earth.
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@FALCAS-0 only thing navy is the planes.
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@Geraki not avaliable on US Block 40, 42, 50, and 52 aircraft.