VR vs TrackIR
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@vAiCon said in VR vs TrackIR:
Same,
IMHO,VR is not ready yet for flying combat simulators,
Its Glitchy, sometimes the rendering time is bumpy and annoying , and the sweetspot of the headset is really small , that without talking about the lack of general clarity and the feeling of low resolution. Screen does not having those kind of problems.
Tried Reverb G2 V2 on both RX7900XTX and RTX3090 and Quest 1 on RTX2080tiI would have agreed with you with all the HMDs I have tried in the past : Rift CV1 / Rift S / Valve Index / Pimax 5k+
The tiny sweetspot of the fresnel lenses is really bad, the god rays, and the unreadable instrument clusters.
This is changing though. I bought a used Varjo Aero, and it is simply amazing. The clarity is the entire FOV, and everything is perfectly readable, even the tiniest text. Performance is quite good, everything is fluid. Of course, this is not for every budget, and it might still be some time before that type of resolution and lens design comes into more affordable headsets, the Pimax Crystal being a good first step.
There are of course downsides, like being really warm on your face, having a hard time to see the keyboard and write stuff down, but it is doable, and as always, it is a matter of concessions.
Nothing is perfect, but I’m quite happy with what I have right now. -
@Flow32 said in VR vs TrackIR:
@vAiCon said in VR vs TrackIR:
Same,
IMHO,VR is not ready yet for flying combat simulators,
Its Glitchy, sometimes the rendering time is bumpy and annoying , and the sweetspot of the headset is really small , that without talking about the lack of general clarity and the feeling of low resolution. Screen does not having those kind of problems.
Tried Reverb G2 V2 on both RX7900XTX and RTX3090 and Quest 1 on RTX2080tiI would have agreed with you with all the HMDs I have tried in the past : Rift CV1 / Rift S / Valve Index / Pimax 5k+
The tiny sweetspot of the fresnel lenses is really bad, the god rays, and the unreadable instrument clusters.
This is changing though. I bought a used Varjo Aero, and it is simply amazing. The clarity is the entire FOV, and everything is perfectly readable, even the tiniest text. Performance is quite good, everything is fluid. Of course, this is not for every budget, and it might still be some time before that type of resolution and lens design comes into more affordable headsets, the Pimax Crystal being a good first step.
There are of course downsides, like being really warm on your face, having a hard time to see the keyboard and write stuff down, but it is doable, and as always, it is a matter of concessions.
Nothing is perfect, but I’m quite happy with what I have right now.i hope the prices would eventually drop below 1000$ for simulators designed VR sets
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@vAiCon
Also from what I’ve read Pico4, while sacrifices tiny bit of clarity of G2 sweetspot for much cleaner picture in general. Might be worth trying out.
It is considered good deal for its affordable (for VR headset) price. -
Have owned two VR headsets and sold them both - prefer TrackIR myself for various reasons. Yes you do need to force yourself to be come good with TrackIR it even after owning a while.
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@tank2 track ir is simple to setup and easier on your system. I prefer VR now. with that being said vr is one hell of a rabbit hole and it will spoil you. I have a hard time playing any other way now. BMS is decently easy to run in vr. If you decide to take the plunge in Vr I highly suggest looking on ebay for a second hand reverb g2 or a Quest 2. The reverb will have better clarity while the quest 2 will have better tracking.
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@Xeno Not available in my country,
but the issue is not only the clarity, but the performance of the VR compare to normal monitors, i have experienced super weird jittering and lags in multiple simulators, therefore it seems like the hardware is not efficient enough to handle it -
I really don’t get the “unreadable gauges/cockpits” comments for fresnel lenses. I do agree that the sweet spot is tiny and that you have to move your face more than you would in real life, but I am only on a rift s and have no problems reading anything in BMS, DCS, Il2 or MSFS. BMS is probably the smudgiest on the MFDs (though ironically with the clearest HUD between BMS and DCS Viper), but quite readable. In DCS, reading the map mfd in harrier or a10 is easy without zooming or leaning in.
Rift S + 1080ti. I run oculus at 1.8x super sampling, BMS at 1.0 with tweaked world scale. The other sims I use OpenXR + CAS which is probably why they appear that bit sharper.
The only time I get issues is smoke - in BMS, looking at a target through the TGP whilst one next to it is smoking is an fps killer, even worse if you can see it in the hud too. Jittering otherwise is just not a thing.
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Talking with a friend last night, he made a comment that I believe is quite on point : with TrackIR you pilot your view, so you have to think about what movement you have to do to achieve a certain angle / viewpoint. With VR you don’t do that, you just look where you want to look.
It makes finding a contact / bandit much easier when you loose sight, because you go quite naturally to where you last saw him.
Just my 2 cents -
@b0bl00i said in VR vs TrackIR:
I used vr quite a bit and also used trackir since it came out.
It’s a hazzle taking it on and off fumbling around looking for buttons etc. Also, forget alt tab to windows for changing songs in Spotify or doing something else like taking notes
Hopefully VR controller support will arrive soon which should make startup & cockpit interaction a bit easier.
You can use SteamVR’s desktop feature and assign spotify its own window, so if you absolutely have to change a song mid-flight, it’d shouldn’t be too difficult to open the spotify desktop window in vr, change song and close the desktop.
Taking (and referring to) notes is a pain but I think mostly alleviated with OpenKneeboard and a tablet. My handwriting is now my biggest issue with notes
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My brother gave me his Oculus2 last year so I will chip in and be honest.
The grafix in BMS are simply inadequate for VR. Maybe when the new engine comes we can see. But at present there is no suspension of disbelief.
In contrast, in DCS World beta with my Hornet, VR is an immersive game changer.
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@tank2 said in VR vs TrackIR:
How much better is VR, compared to TrackIR, for BMS? TrackIR has its advantages - it’s cheap and easy to use.
No comparison.
A good VR setup is so much better than a good TIR setup. But yes you will pay dearly for that good VR setup compared with TIR, and you might be prone to motion sickness which can be more acute with VR.Pico 4 is an exceptional headset for BMS (I get 90fps in most situations), and dogfighting has to be experienced to be believed! Buttery smooth, total immersion and easy to read gauges! But you need the appropriate hardware and setup Wifi etc. While the Pico is cheap, the hardware to run it for sims is expensive.
(I’ve done a video Pico setup on my channel which might find useful, as it outlines the usability).
There’s no comparison with the quest (2) and the Pico (4), Pico is far superior for sims. But I guess there’s few comments on the Pico since its not available in the US AFAIK.
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@Fish44 said in VR vs TrackIR:
There’s no comparison with the quest and the Pico, Pico is far superior for sims.
With the Quest 2 I would agree.
The Quest Pro is something else with the Pancake lenses and screens that move with the IPD setting, making a much better usage of the resolution. The Quest 3 should be on Pico 4 image quality levels or better.
I really believe it comes down to what type of lenses are used. Having clarity over the whole FOV is game changing in my opinion.For the rest, I’m with you. The immersion is awesome.
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@Mower are you the YouTuber cw_lemoine?
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@Rakamora
Nope, Mower is just a Mower -
I have a HP G2 v2 and plenty of power to max it out but I much prefer my 2D TIR5 setup with triples and MFDs running Helios MFDs\Gauges and a moving map on the side. For VR you can also use VR NeckSafer to help with a neck that can’t move like an owls so you can check 6 with ease…
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I think it also matters what your favorite mission is with VR vs. TIR. If, like me, you like looking outside the cockpit kinda stuff such as practicing AAR, formations, landings, BFM, visual bombing, etc., the proprioception of 1:1 head tracking and stereoscopic view is extremely valuable. Also I the often increased to vertical aspect ratio allows an easier time looking through your lift vector in BFM, something I missed with normal triple screen setups being a narrow visor view. I also should say that have my VR headset’s facial interfaces modded so I can look under and see my MFDs and their display for full resolution of those. But even then my Reverb G2 is very readable, but for some people the resolution loss of looking in the cockpit isn’t workable.
Mouse click ICP/MFD work and rampstart is annoying in VR (honestly though rampstarts are just something I tolerate than nerd out about, I know I’m the minority there, and PointCTRL support would eliminate this gripe for me). Honestly, a pretty close second to VR for me has been a triplescreen 4k TV 55" 4k and then 3rd is a single 55" 4k, all of those being with TIR. I think it all comes down to if you are a VR fan. If you like VR, it’s hard to go back to flat screen. If you try VR and like it, it will capture your imagination in most cases.