Phantom Phrustration
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So, this seems silly: but, I cannot get the F-4 to lift-off at any speed. Testing w/ Easy FM, I got it up to 300kts on the runway and full back stick still wouldn’t raise the nose. Also tried w/ maxed-out Nose-Up Trim, as well. WTH am I doing wrong? All other A/C I’ve tried do not seem to have this issue. And, yes, I have RTFM, too…
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@parislord What happens if you turn easy FM off?
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+1 on easy avionics being probable cause. Recently there was similar thread, solution was to use realistic FM option easy option iirc is not maintained and probably broken.
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…this is going to sound crazy, but try getting up to rotation speed and then backing the throttles out of Max until the nose lifts off (you should rotate somewhere short of 125 to 180 Kts, I should think - some speed before you’d burst the tires), then going back to Max once the nose has lifted.
A better thing to try would be to do a MIL power takeoff run and not select AB until after the nose comes up…which one of these techniques will work best will depend on how much runway you have available, your takeoff GWT, and how quickly you need to accelerate to get off the deck for the runway available.
I’ve heard RL stories of Phantom pilots doing this…no telling if it applies here, but worth a shot.
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@Xeno: Tried on default AND Easy, switched to Easy to try it at much higher than rotate speed. Cannot get the a/c to lift-off under any circumstances… I thinks it’s some kind of weight issue: if I take out about 20% of the internal fuel it’ll pitch-up abruptly around 285kts. This was with 3x AIM-7, 4x AIM-9, ALQ-119 and 2x Wing-Tanks. With 3x Tanks, it will not lift off at all until I end the mission at which key-press it suddenly takes-off at a steep but effortless pitch-up.
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@Stevie: Thx, I’ll try that in a tic. Noticed on Infobar, despite being in full burner, rpm says “100%”. Not sure how that might apply.
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@parislord - I used to work as a design engineer at GE Aircraft Engines, and that was one of the hardest things for me to grasp in the beginning - at both MIL and MAX power the engine will indicate 100% because the action of the AB occurs downstream of the core engine.
An engine is designed to operate at one RPM; that required to provide MIL power, per specification. Any other condition - part power or AB - is considered off-design. But as such, spec power physical RPM - MIL - is where/how 100% is defined, and what allows RPM to be determined and displayed as % of spec.
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Sounds like the “A/C is glued to ground” problem, affecting some aircraft with the normal (OFM) flight model. IIRC it’s code issue and might have something to do with aircraft that are somewhat tilted on ground or so. While it was said that it was fixed, I continued to encounter this issue with the OFM. Was one of the main drivers for me to work on an AFM for the Eurofighter.
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@Scorpion82 This has been fixed in 4.37U1 or U2
Not a reason at all to try going to AFM nowI would be highly surprised if you still have issue outside EasyMode in U2 in KTO/BLK/ITO
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@Stevie said in Phantom Phrustration:
@parislord - I used to work as a design engineer at GE Aircraft Engines, and that was one of the hardest things for me to grasp in the beginning - at both MIL and MAX power the engine will indicate 100% because the action of the AB occurs downstream of the core engine.
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@TOPOLO said in Phantom Phrustration:
@Scorpion82 This has been fixed in 4.37U1 or U2
Not a reason at all to try going to AFM nowI would be highly surprised if you still have issue outside EasyMode in U2 in KTO/BLK/ITO
And yet. F4G, enter 3D on Runway, Training flight, push all the way up, stay glued still at 300.
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@TOPOLO said in Phantom Phrustration:
@Scorpion82 This has been fixed in 4.37U1 or U2
Not a reason at all to try going to AFM nowI would be highly surprised if you still have issue outside EasyMode in U2 in KTO/BLK/ITO
Not sure when I tried it the last time, but back then it still didn’t work. The AFM has been developed in any case already (refinements apart). So it’s probably not worth to proceed with the OFM.
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@Scorpion82 If you have AFM, for F-4, I suspect it is not stock BMS DB, so I can’t do anything for you
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@TOPOLO said in Phantom Phrustration:
@Scorpion82 If you have AFM, for F-4, I suspect it is not stock BMS DB, so I can’t do anything for you
I’m describing KTO in my post.
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@LorikEolmin - I’m surprised that if you are on the deck at 300 knots that you haven’t burst your nose tires…
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Just tested this for fun no problems…
4.37.2 KTO F-4E, no mods, standard single runway, Huangsuwon or wahtever, half flaps full mil power rotate at 160kts with 4xAIM9 + 4xAIM7 worked fine on accurate and easy flight model.
I remember getting stuck on the runway with the retarded OFM F-18 flight model, rocked the stick a few times and it got up. -
@Stevie said in Phantom Phrustration:
@LorikEolmin - I’m surprised that if you are on the deck at 300 knots that you haven’t burst your nose tires…
Stay on topic.
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F4E ROKAF works, F4G doesn’t.
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@LorikEolmin said in Phantom Phrustration:
F4E ROKAF works, F4G doesn’t.
The guy only said F-4… not very specific there.
Yes you are correct F-4G is not flyable. Reason is it does not do full control surface deflection. Fly both and you can easily see the problem. This is full aft stick…
F-4E
F-4G
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F-4E ROKAF and F-4G are the same a/c (but the weight, and difference will not prevent one of them to take-off)
3d model are different, and as noted, I suspect F-4G DoF to have issues, but this has nothing to do with T/O speed
If you have issue with rotation at T/O with one of the F-4 and not with another variant in 4.37.2 KTO, I highly suspect your install being corrupted in a way or another.