Upgrade to FCC3 for Cougar
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For those with FCC SSC upgrades, what improvements did you experience in your pitch and bank control?
Did you find AAR easier than with the stock cougar internals? -
I found it a lot more difficult to AAR, at first. That is, until I configured the FCC to be very sensitive. That allowed me to do minute corrections with very little force needed. In the end, I think that it still comes down to practice-practice-practice be it with pots or FCC in your stick.
I’d always advize to install an FCC, just because it’s extremely durable compared to pots. To date, I still have an Arend “White Eagle” van Oosten FCC-2 of 2007, and it still works great.
Lastly, I’d also advize to configure the throttle to be mechanically quite “stiff”, that helps keeping your speed under the tanker constant - which helped me A LOT with AAR. -
@jcook Not FCC but I got the FSSB for my WH setup. Well, I was using the WH stick and throttle for some time then upgraded to the Virpil WarBRD and just loved the smoothness of it. I was able to upgrade to the FSSB this year and it took some getting used to.
I could do AAR with the WH and did appreciate the smoother centre with the WarBRD gimbals. However, with the FSSB, I find myself able to correct PIOs much sooner and much easier giving me more confidence in close formation whether with the tanker or looking for bullet holes on my wingman’s jet. 10/10 would recommend. I guess the only downside is if building a replica pit, this hardware is not compatible, I think.
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I finally got around to installing my FCC3 - I was saving it to mount in my pit - but ended up installing it in the Cougar base and using it on a separate desktop sim build. After some initial adjustments it seems to be working okay. Definitely feels different from the old gimbals and potentiometers in the original configuration. It will take getting used to - but I still wonder if some current issues i am having are due to my developing FCC3 technique or if there are some additional config adjustments I should make.
Bank control is good, but pitch - especially under the tanker is very touchy and I easily get into PIO issues. I also need to apply back pressure quite a bit to stay level.
Looking in the Setup Configuration screen I see the ‘ball’ is in the center circle - maybe slightly, slightly up and to the right - but still 99% inside the centered circle. Movement of the stick shows proper X and Y axis movement on this test page.
If there are any experienced FCC3 users out there who can suggest some things to try I would appreciate it. I think I am pretty close to getting it right if I can just tweak this a bit more.
Thanks.
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@jcook
Not sure if this is directly applicable, but I will share my story with you in hopes it may help. A year or so ago, I purchased a VFS-WE (a force-sensitive stick system made by ViperGear), which went into my TM HOTAS COugar stick base, and uses the Cougar handle. I have been struggling with what you just mentioned ever since I got the stick - It always seemed just fine in roll, but it has always been quite “pitchy” especially in the Up direction. It took notably less force to cause upward pitch, and this often caused overshoots. I tried every curve setting and deadzone setting imaginable, including BMS User Config settings mentioned by @airtex2019 in other threads, to no avail. Tried Manual cal, Auto Cal, but still just not accurate in pitch. Just today, I noticed that when I applied upward pitch, the handle moved ever so slightly, which caused the pitch to jump. Looking at it more closely, although the handle was firmly screwed in to the VFS-WE threads in the base, it was still just slightly wobbly, and that is what seemed to cause the upward pitch issues.Long story short, I remember that when I received the VFS-WE, Vipergear also included a hard (ABS plastic) “spacer” which fits VERY tightly between the large gray thumbwheel used to fasten the Cougar handle to the VFS-WE threading and the bottom of the Cougar handle. I forced the plastic spacer in, and the difference was night-and-day. I could do AAR using my old Cougar, and have done so many times, but with the VFS-WE, I had a very hard time getting and staying on the boom due to the upward “pitchiness”. With the new spacer installed, I just finished an AAR with no issues, and the VFS-WE is responding as I would expect it to - the upward pitchiness is gone. I am still working curves to desensitize the middle a little more, but this seems to have solved my problem. Maybe it will yours as well.
R/
TC2 -
@jcook
I can confirm @Tomcattwo findings.
I do not have an FCC3, but a (very old) “Arend” FCC-2.
The Cougar stick did not fit perfectly on it, I had a bit of handle play.
As my old FFC-2 did not come with a spacer ring, so I cut a small piece of memory foam to fit between the side stick and the FCC. no more play whatsoever and I was back in the AAR game
See: https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/17174/handle-play-my-solution/2?_=1700435135099 -
@BVT_9 Where is anyone even getting an FCC2 or 3? Arend passed away several years ago.
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@MailMan said in Upgrade to FCC3 for Cougar:
@BVT_9 Where is anyone even getting an FCC2 or 3? Arend passed away several years ago.
https://invictuscockpits.com/products/f-16-viper-force-sensor-modification
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@MailMan I purchased my FCC3 from Arend years ago, when I started buying parts.
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@Stevie Awesome. Glad to see I can find one if mine ever goes bad. I wonder who took up this venture. I see they are starting to produce cockpit parts too. I also wonder if those are Mike Williams panel designs.
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@jcook I can’t remember if mine is a two or a three, I have had it so long. Still works good.
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@MailMan - I recall that in the beginning there was another guy located on the Continent that was initially producing these and a few other Viper products…but he sold off his biz (not long ago) and the FCC production rights along with it to Invictus.
I’m eagerly awaiting the followup unit that will work with the Warthog PCB/grip combination. That’s been teased for some time now.
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@Stevie @MailMan ,
Yes I believe that was “Blade” at ViperGear, located in The Netherlands. I bought a VFS WE (ViperGear Force Sensor - White Eagle - Arend’s Callsign if I recall correctly) from them last year (May 2022). He was starting to wind down the business by the end of 2022.
Glad to see he sold the rights to Invictus. Thanks for the link, Stevie!
Regards,
Tomcattwo
(VoiceClone) -
@Tomcattwo - Yes - that’s the guy I remember!
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@Stevie Wow…thanks…
I will consider buying it when the new Warthog compatible version will be released -
I could use some advice from FCC users.
I am having issues with consistency and accuracy with my FCC3. modified TM Cougar stick.
In this photo - I am applying the ‘right’ amount of pressure I want - but getting little movement in the axis.
As best as I can determine I have set it up correctly following Arends instruction manual - setting the zero points with the small potentiometers.
I have also used the CCP app to set the min/max ranges for the X and Y axis. I do not have any other axis in use - I use a separate TM TPD rudder and TM Viper TQS.
I have this setup for manual calibration, however unless I start the program and apply it to the stick before using it, I does not remember the settings and I do not get much movement with the axes in game.It seems like it should remember the settings and the CCP program should not need to be started for each gaming session. Is that correct?
I did have to click the CENTER button in the BMS setup, because the stick’s centering was not centered.
I general I am not getting equal physical force vs x/y movement in all 4 directions. Pitch down is much more sensitive and a left hand roll requires less physical effort.
On a separate issue - I also need a way to make pitch less sensitive in AAR - the instructions show a scripting example - but I am not sure what file that script gets added to…
I am not using Foxy nor am I using any CCP deadzones or curves.
Can anyone provide some advice please?
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@jcook
I’ve gotten an FCC3 but never had to do all of that. It was out of centre when I installed it on my cockpit, but just re-calibrated and zero’d via MS game controllers. Not installed Foxy or CCP in my computer.To be fair, I’ve not really tested for accuracy but it works as I expect and can do AAR with no problems, similar in performance to my FSSB base. I am having some issues with wiggle with regards to the grip, but obviously that’s not related to the FCC/FSSB.
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@Atlas
I am doing something wrong - or not understanding something about the setup procedure.I thought the deal was not to use MS Windois calibration tools with the FCC3…
I appear to be the only one in history with this issue. Hopefully someone has something for me to try / troubleshoot.
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@jcook
I thought I’d needed to go through all the Cougar legacy stuff as well, but so far, it’s working with the minimum I’ve done for it. Maybe give that a go and see how it works for you? Nothing to lose at this point, I guess. -
You have to save the calibration.ccf file in C:\Program Files (x86)\HOTAS\calib
Doable only if you have installed the Hotas as admin.