X1 color in BMS 4.32, flipped mesh diagonals
-
well, more than year passed and nobody answered X1 issue.
ok,there was a suggestion, howto bypass integrated BMS normal calculation in another thread….But here is more serious issue of the current BMS terrain engine. Why are all diagonals flipped now?
green is previous Falcon4 state…the lake would be flat in original Falcon and inside other F4 versions
…It was just a small sample
It is not very encouraging to spend a lot of time terrain fixing, of the risk some new group making Falcon “face lift” (great tho) could corrupt it…
Is it really so hard to make the direction of diagonals changeable? For example via parametr inside theatre definition file? -
Interesting, I’ll bring it up with the other developers. Switching the triangles shouldn’t be complicated, but I’m not sure how much new art depends on how they are currently.
Also, I wouldn’t expect the other the untextured tiles in the distance to ever return.
-
Also, I wouldn’t expect the other the untextured tiles in the distance to ever return.
I am not calling for ability to turn off textures so much, but rather for an option to make another X1 colour layer visible again…. I guess it is still present in the code, just washed out by built in normalfix utility…?
Interesting, I’ll bring it up with the other developers. Switching the triangles shouldn’t be complicated, but I’m not sure how much new art depends on how they are currently.
wow wow wow!
All original F4 textures were in harmony with old diagonals direction. Even the new textures are ok - as I know. There are both walley diagonal transitiosn present in every complete texture pack. There would be an issue only for someone working on “triangle level” of the mesh elevations since BMS 4.32 was out. But as i know nobody noticed TEditor bug with “vertices offset”. I think all devs are working on the polygon level or rather modding highmap as whole bitmap in bitmap editing program (even higher level ).
If the terrain designer wants to make the valley as narrow as possible, he must make it according triangle direction.
Here is the valley I did in TV (old utility) in the past:
I would make it in another way if BMS rule was common. i would make it “violet”:
U can not pass the valley now….logicaly
The best would be to externize triangulation as parametr:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?12389-One-BMS-Christmas-Wish/page7If it is hard work, just make it old style please. I am quite sure nobody will notice problem….
-
For a long time, I was of the opinion that X1 was related to fog. What else could be? That was how it was named in the comments to the code. It was nice the effect we saw then in Falcon, like these pictures:
But Lukas dived in the files and showed us the subtle uses that X1 had, related more to tint.
Now I don’t see anymore fog effects like those depicted before. Why it is that? Is it related to code? I remember a problem in SP3 where objects were being rendered over the fog. I fear that this problem lead to a deactivation of the code related and a loss of a cool (IMHO) effect, that added to the realism.
-
For a long time, I was of the opinion that X1 was related to fog. What else could be? That was how it was named in the comments to the code. It was nice the effect we saw then in Falcon, like these pictures:
……But Lukas dived in the files and showed us the subtle uses that X1 had, related more to tint.
Now I don’t see anymore fog effects like those depicted before. Why it is that? Is it related to code? I remember a problem in SP3 where objects were being rendered over the fog. I fear that this problem lead to a deactivation of the code related and a loss of a cool (IMHO) effect, that added to the realism.
This old Falcon fog effect is nice. But I like tinting as well. I like “fresnell” tinting I posted on AF pictures. But perhaps simple plain vertex colouring would be even better. It is very basic, simple and ancient 3Dtechnique (for both DirectX and OpenGL). Of course I would like to see both(tint+fog) in future BMS version.
BTW i still guess fog is rather derivation from theta and phi values (x2,x3)tinting setting proposal - all terrain vertices would be white in default theater (whole map file palette white, textures not affected), but if designer desires to make for example desert more interesting, it is possible to add some colors to palette and L2 - some kind of cheaper “supervariation”
real desert is not so boring regarding colors… -
The tinting / fog effect really enhanced the terrain IMHO… I really wish to see it back. I posted this a while ago:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?14120-Absent-of-topography-dependent-mist-in-BMSWith the effect (FF)
Without in BMS
-
No values to change in fog option in weather setting to have that? Maybe the low altitude clouds are too dense?
-
Negative dema, this is different from fog. It is selective coloring applied to the terrain itself.
-
Don’t know exactly how the mist thing was working earlier… but this also can be implemented with the particle system that we have and can be puffy and not just a flat layer. From far it can be flat 2d but for close up it can be a combo of 3d and 2d…
Imagine that in the early morning between two mountains and u flying over it or inside it…Once again: “IF my grandma had wheels she would be a skate…” AKA dreaming…
-
dreaming about flipped diagonals for almost 2 years…
What is your conclusion dear developers?
-
this is quite interesting - if we want to generate triangulated grid, calling “GenTriGrid” function in DirectX 9c, triangles are generated as in old Falcon - oposite to BMS 4.32
-
this is quite interesting - if we want to generate triangulated grid, calling “GenTriGrid” function in DirectX 9c, triangles are generated as in old Falcon - oposite to BMS 4.32
Now does this post mean that you can solve the triangulation problems yourself,
or do you still have to wait for a fix from the BMS folks?
Cheers,
LS -
Good find, Lukas. http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/beerchug.gif
Now does this post mean that you can solve the triangulation problems yourself,
or do you still have to wait for a fix from the BMS folks?
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/headscratch.gifCheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LSI have to wait for a fix from the BMS folks.
But I would be happy for their opinion for now.
-
This post is deleted! -
may I hope in some progress?
-
No idea…. I even unshure aout if they are aware or this. Maybe a quick mp to Dunc and/or Boxer … (?)
-
There were various rumors and confusions according to X1 in the past. It was told it has something to do with fog and so on. Perhaps it was different in various F4 versions.
But in my opinion original purpose was low computer power in mid 90ths. You can see X1 in this old screenshot.
You can see that textures are not displayed over the whole terrain mesh. Where are the textures ending, X1 begins.:
http://vterrain.org/Games/falcon4_low.jpg
–---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------On the pictures bellow, there is X1 visible over the terrain I did. Thanks to it low-res PCX AF terrain looks much better than with pure white. It helped to hide pixelation of L3,4,5. I also tinted default textures by X1 layer (greenish velvet hilltops, brown mountains, cold blue snow, wet land around lakes, shallow waters nearby islands etc ,etc,…)
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/2010-10-12_20_57_44.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/_jas39.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/2010-10-13_01_36_36.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/Mir3_swizz.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/F5_takeoff.jpg
–----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ok, BMS 4.32 terrain use true color DDS, it looks much better than old PCX. But I loved color tinting. It was perhaps a little exaggerated during down and dusk in AF. Perhaps it has some connection to lighting and haze as well in AF… But I would preferred it as simple vertex color tinting if possible. Just allow this color layer blend with textures.
(BTW I can remember textures transited seamessly to X1 in SP3. It was possible to set texture distance as well (not necessery for now).)
Here is an example of my terrain in BMS. I am unable to activate X1 coloring here :sad: :
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/17.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/16.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/19.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/09-1.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/08-1.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/04-1.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/05-1.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/22.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/13.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/12.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/10.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/07-1.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/06-1.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/11.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/14.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/02-2.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/20.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/01-2.jpgOk, the terrain is not bad now. But looks a little bit “sad” and grey for me…
LukIt’s funny that terrain in those old FA shots looks lot better than in bms … :shock:
-
at least mrivers and biker knows about it (i also PMed to ataribaby in czech in July)…
@mrivers:Interesting, I’ll bring it up with the other developers. Switching the triangles shouldn’t be complicated, but I’m not sure how much new art depends on how they are currently.
Hey Lukas,
I’m following this for quite a while and can understand you’re annoyance…
Just I cannot help you on this problem and the guys who can ATM are to much busy with RL issues to go after this.
So please be patient, there are a hell lot of other things we need to improve, this is just one of them (although probably for you the most important).
Cheers
Bikerno problem, i will remain patient……just…the smell of X-mas around and I have spent X-mas time terrain building in many past years…
-
For a long time, I was of the opinion that X1 was related to fog. What else could be? That was how it was named in the comments to the code. It was nice the effect we saw then in Falcon, like these pictures:
http://tactical.nekromantix.com/f4/screenshots/vietnamshot4.jpg
But Lukas dived in the files and showed us the subtle uses that X1 had, related more to tint.
Now I don’t see anymore fog effects like those depicted before. Why it is that? Is it related to code? I remember a problem in SP3 where objects were being rendered over the fog. I fear that this problem lead to a deactivation of the code related and a loss of a cool (IMHO) effect, that added to the realism.
I hope that this will come back too, it’s sad that whem some things are improved other fine things get wasted … why its have to be like this in Falcon 4 , always ?? No need to re invite wheel
-
It’s funny that terrain in those old FA shots looks lot better than in bms … :shock:
yea, terrain tinting is great imo….it is very underestimated (one of the most effective and “cheap” anti repetitive instrument)
…but huge L2 terrain distance in BMS is so brilliant