MICA flight path
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does that mean you should try and fire it by taking into account the current flightpath of your target so that it doesnt have to correct as much?
I do not think so. The issue is especially in terminal phase. (Cruz, correct me if I am wrong.)
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I do not think so. The issue is especially in terminal phase. (Cruz, correct me if I am wrong.)
Actually, in all phases
Even if you do anticipate, the missile will loft itself and self-induce a wrong course in the vertical plane (in order to gain more range). Its especially true for the MICA-IR, which combines poor guidance gains and a very high loft. Its present but clearly not as much on other missiles.
However, I strongly suspects it is the main thing allowing the “head-on avoidance” for the 120.
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is there any fix for the MICA IR for 4.33? presumably a bit more gain (whatever that is) and a bit less loft would make it a more effective missile? the mirage is already quite weak in some aspects compared to the f-16 (particularly in max speed and slow speed handling)
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is there any fix for the MICA IR for 4.33? presumably a bit more gain (whatever that is) and a bit less loft would make it a more effective missile? the mirage is already quite weak in some aspects compared to the f-16 (particularly in max speed and slow speed handling)
For most missiles, ideally, you would need more than just tweaking a bit gains and loft anyway.
More on that in 3-4 weeks :mrgreen:
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glad to hear it
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is there any fix for the MICA IR for 4.33? presumably a bit more gain (whatever that is) and a bit less loft would make it a more effective missile? the mirage is already quite weak in some aspects compared to the f-16 (particularly in max speed and slow speed handling)
The only flaw in the 2000 flight model IMO is the roll acceleration. It takes too much time to reach it’s max roll rate, whereas it is almost instantaneous on the real thing.
Otherwise, well handled, I find the Mirage to be vastly superior to the F-16 when it comes to getting quick shots ; a Viper might take the advantage over the 2000 on the long run, tho, thanks to its superior after-burning thrust (almost 2 tons more).
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indeed, the model is quite good and the mirage certainly has some great qualities, it is at a bit of a disadvantage in BVR however, simply based on its performance: it cannot go as fast as an F-16, and my impression is that it uses more fuel aswell. the EM seems to be pretty comparable to the 120, however the IR is essentially useless with its terrible head on performance. i engaged an F-16 yesterday in the FO campaign, had him running cold; uncaged my IR and switched my radar off to bait him into turning around, fox2’d x2 with decent separation when he did, and he just ended up chasing me down. when reviewing the ACMI, i saw that the IR’s missed him by very little coming down from high, and ended up chasing his tail for a mile or so…
i’m still enjoying flying the mirage, but i guess ill have to adapt my tactics in order to make the armament effective until its fixed…
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I do not agree with you on fuel consumption, they are roughly equal at the same engine regime, but the Mirage packs more punch at dry power : it can very easily reach cruise speed around Mach 0,90 - 0,95 without pulling too much on the gas. It also carries more fuel which really gives it an advantage both in range and loiter time (typical CAP loadout is 2x 2000L tanks, 1x 1300L, 6x MICA, for 16100 lbs in total, at FL360).
Where I agree with you is that when accelerating, the 2000 stays a long time in trans-sonic regime, due to its delta wing design. But once you are in pure supersonic flight domain, it accelerates very well and fast.
Another flaw of the delta wing are high altitude, high load factor turns, which will totally tear down your energy, so be careful with these. Use the burner before and during your turn. Otherwise, you can cruise at M0,92 with no difficulty at FL360 at MIL power.As for the MICA… I can only agree with you in the current state. But I’ll leave that to the experts on that subject !
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and my impression is that it uses more fuel aswell.
In clean configuration, at FL150 @ 540KTAS:
F-16CB52 -> 4620 lbs/H
M2000 -> 5040 lbs/H -
In clean configuration, at FL150 @ 540KTAS:
F-16CB52 -> 4620 lbs/min
M2000 -> 5040 lbs/minPer minute ? That’s a pretty serious fuel leak you got there DJ… :mrgreen:
So, there is indeed a very slightly higher fuel consumption for the 2000 (which is confirmed by official Snecma’s and PW’s engine consumption figures).
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… per hours sorry.
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another question re the mirage; specifically the 2000-5. does the cannon shoot slower rounds? I was offensive on a mig31 last night, and the amount of lead I had to pull was quite ridiculous - I was close enough to him, granted we were flying quite fast - 500kts or so - but it was really hard to get a solution because the pipper was off the hud…
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another question re the mirage; specifically the 2000-5. does the cannon shoot slower rounds? I was offensive on a mig31 last night, and the amount of lead I had to pull was quite ridiculous - I was close enough to him, granted we were flying quite fast - 500kts or so - but it was really hard to get a solution because the pipper was off the hud…
The 30mm DEFA554 fitted to the Mirage has a muzzle velocity about 200m/s slower than the 20mm M61 of the F-16. The GIAT-30 used on the Rafale has a muzzle velocity comparable to the M61.
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Hi everyone,
We could believe that the french missiles has been willingly nerfed to offset the advantage of the Mirage 2000 in dogfight against the F-16.
I was litteraly playing with him but in an F-16 (against another human, same level as me), I had diffucult to put myself in his 6.I’d recommend getting some additional handling time in the F-16, if you’re having any problems with a mirage in WVR air combat.
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I think it’s not a matter of handling time, it rather sounds like the usual beginner’s mistake of believing that pulling the stick as hard as you can is the best way to turn. And the Mirage 2000 is a great plane if you like to pull the stick hard, though experienced dogifighters know better.
However, the Mirage 2000 instantaneous turn rate sometimes comes handy in a missile fight, especially if there’s no HMCS involved.
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Agreed. Each platform has its preferred performance envelopes, but the reference that I quoted which suggests the mirage sustains an advantage WVR is laughable at best.
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another question re the mirage; specifically the 2000-5. does the cannon shoot slower rounds? I was offensive on a mig31 last night, and the amount of lead I had to pull was quite ridiculous - I was close enough to him, granted we were flying quite fast - 500kts or so - but it was really hard to get a solution because the pipper was off the hud…
Range, aspect? 90 degree aspect at 500 knots, 6K ft range and 7G would be a fair bit of lead in the viper as well, no?
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it was 45 degrees angle off at most, and yes, i know that speed and range will affect the amount of lead needed, but despite being close, i could hardly get a shooting solution. in the end i just flew lag and reduced the angle off but it was still surprising.
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Agreed. Each platform has its preferred performance envelopes, but the reference that I quoted which suggests the mirage sustains an advantage WVR is laughable at best.
I remember a couple of times when I was dog-fighting with 16s for a couple of minutes, I couldn’t get a quick shot for some reason and I lost the energy advantage since a long time but they were still unable to get a shot… been playing with them a long time.
So having the energy advantage is neat but kinda useless if you don’t know how to fully master your aircraft (pilots I fought didn’t seem to be specifically incompetent tho). -
I remember a couple of times when I was dog-fighting with 16s for a couple of minutes, I couldn’t get a quick shot for some reason and I lost the energy advantage since a long time but they were still unable to get a shot… been playing with them a long time.
So having the energy advantage is neat but kinda useless if you don’t know how to fully master your aircraft (pilots I fought didn’t seem to be specifically incompetent tho).In any situation, especially a dissimilar aircraft wvr engagements, the outcome is heavily dependent on the conditions at the moment both fighters make contact.
In regards to the quote I referenced, it was neutral conditions in the DF training module. Under these neutral start positions, anyone struggling to fight with a mirage simply isn’t aware of the dissimilar performance capabilities between both platforms, nor utilize them in their preferred envelopes.