Threshold Speed
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Including the formula? I must have missed it then. What doc and what page is it on?
page 9 of the main checklist has the chart, thought the formula was included too but it seems Im mistaken. Which leads me to wonder where Ive seen it before…
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That’s totally fine. I’ve seen the graph and also the ones you posted here and the vast amount of docs on your site. Guys like you and others on here are doing tremendous work for the community and should be saluted.
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…it’s backwards…every USN Test Pilot I know that has flown the Viper agrees that it is backwards. From their training…and I agree with them.
You are stubborn
Ibwould say the f18 is backward and every f16 pilot would say the same.
Got the point ? Nobody is right or wrong …two different aircraft two different systems
Personnally i find no logic in f18 indexer ….low AOA is red !!! Come on !!!
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So much fuss about the bracket that’s not an E or C, when the OP is calling BMS a video game when in fact is a simulator.
Video game = HAWKS :uham:We were waiting for this post.
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Blue you give me inspiration :nosep:
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You are stubborn
Ibwould say the f18 is backward and every f16 pilot would say the same.
Got the point ? Nobody is right or wrong …two different aircraft two different systems
Personnally i find no logic in f18 indexer ….low AOA is red !!! Come on !!!
Like I said - “from their training”. I was also trained in a Fleet T-45A sim…by Fleet USN Instructors. So it’s backwards.
But I agree with ya…as far as training goes.
As for red for the low AOA in the Hornet - if you’re coming aboard the boat and you are at low AOA - i.e.; fast - and at the wrong pitch - low - you will either skip the hook, break the cable, or possibly impact the deck hard…all of which are BAD. RED = BAD. I spent some time standing on the LSO plat as an observer aboard CVN 72 watching folks from NAS Lemoore CQ…and we had a guy get his legs removed when a cable snapped back when I was working T-45. That was BAD. BAD ain’t good. That’s the logic.
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Exhibit A:
Looks like I might do up a post on how all this works as there’s a lot of duff info getting passed here.
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I don’t know what it is that you’re finding backwards or wrong at how the instruments and indicators on the F16 are, but that’s how it is. If the F18 is different, well, that’s another plane with different philosophy then.
The left indexer shows you red if you’re approach AOA is greater than 14deg. I guess it’s red because you might get a tail strike.
It’s arrow is pointing down as to inform you to decrease your AOA.
The meatball (fpm) is then located at the bottom of the bracket on the hud. Which is kinda logical since your AOA is too big and you need to bring the meatball closer to the gun cross, i.e. closer to the middle of the bracket.The indexer shows yellow if your AOA is below 11deg. Yellow as in ok, a bit too shallow but go ahead and try.
This arrow points up as to inform you to increase your AOA.
The meatball (fpm) is now closer to the top of the bracket on your hud. Again logical, you need to increase your AOA and that will get the meatball towards the middle of the bracket on your hud.As for the bracket on the hud, well, I see no difference between the video posted above and what we all try to do when landing. Get the meatball (fpm) somewhere in the middle.
The only difference i’m thinking of, doesn’t show on the vid, is that the indexer on the F18 is upside down compared to the F16. Again that’s a different plane.I like your formula for calculating approach speed though, since you kinda know what speed to aim for. And I showed my appreciation.
No need to call the info duff, since everybody on here is trying to help (i guess). Otherwise you’re post wouldn’t get any attention.Just my peaceful 2 cents
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Don’t worry about the backwards thing, It was just banter. It is backwards, but only when you compare it to most other aircraft. Do I care? No… I just don’t use it. All that “backwards” stuff is just a fun excuse to bring some other interesting info people may not have considered.
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AoA depends on speed and speed to get this aoa depends on weight: conclusion aoa depends on weight!
Not for a pilot point of view. During your approach, you have to fly a given AoA which will be the same anytime. So only the speed will vary depending on your weight.
Those graphs do exist for the real deal for a reason.
Explanations already given: In case of AoA probes issues (check) and for braking performances.
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As Stevie said for F-18 and other “navalised a/c” :
As for red for the low AOA in the Hornet - if you’re coming aboard the boat and you are at low AOA - i.e.; fast - and at the wrong pitch - low - you will either skip the hook, break the cable, or possibly impact the deck hard…all of which are BAD. RED = BAD. I spent some time standing on the LSO plat as an observer aboard CVN 72 watching folks from NAS Lemoore CQ…and we had a guy get his legs removed when a cable snapped back when I was working T-45. That was BAD. BAD ain’t good. That’s the logic.
… and on F-16 … RED = BAD = Risk of “tail strike” (-> at 14-15° for an approach AoA of 11° to 13° Max at touchdown).
Logic is good for both a/c.
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All that I said. Thanks for reaffirming DeeJay.
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My HUD is always green
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I learned a lot from this thread. I’m glad it happened.
The USN style bracket (I could see why you’d call that one an E) seems to work the same way as the F-16. A different arrangement of the indexer doesn’t upset me at all. In the T-45 the colors go from green to yellow to red with increasing AOA. So you want to fly the middle caution-colored speed. Too fast is green, too slow is red. I prefer the F-16 color scheme of green=good compared to flying in the yellow zone.
I appreciate the USN indexer more for positions of the lights. On approach I care the most about the FPM. If the FPM is sinking into the ground I couldn’t care too much about the nose position. So to me with my FPM focused attention low FPM = low light makes sense. I respond better to indicators than directors most times. If my AOA gets too much the F-16s indexer is telling me to lower the nose (if the red upper arrow pointing down is considered a director) when what I usually need to do is add power. So it’s not that great a director since I have to do something else, I’d rather have a FPM-sinking indicator. My ideal indexer would be USN in position arrangement but USAF in color scheme.
I notice there are some colored segments to the F-16’s AOA gauge that correspond to the indexer lights. At sufficiently low AOA is it supposed to suspend the yellow light and just plain turn off? It seems weird that it runs 24/7.
There’s some extra indication on the T-45 with a diagonal arrow thingy. Is that some kind of ILS or TACAN guidance?
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…. I appreciate the USN indexer more for positions of the lights. On approach I care the most about the FPM. If the FPM is sinking into the ground I couldn’t care too much about the nose position. So to me with my FPM focused attention low FPM = low light makes sense. …
Not sure if it’s exactly relevant, but for Navy AC the runway is constantly moving away from them at ~30 knots (or they are trained to act as if it is). Which means you’d have to keep the FPM where the deck will be when you touch down. I am fairly certain the Navy strongly discourages this (spotting the deck) and insists you fly the meatball and the AoA indicators.
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I’m talking about if the F-16 used the USN type indexer so there is no boat. I like that method since it agrees with how I do approaches. I sort out the FPM first and worry about AOA second. If my FPM sinks I don’t appreciate a hint to lower the nose since that will only get me in the correct AOA traveling the wrong direction. It’s quite unusual for my FPM to be on and my nose to be too high which would be the only normal situation that nose lowering would remedy.
What’s funny is as I’m writing this I’m reading a T-45 manual and their indexer uses the top light to indicate AOA is too high… just like the F-16. Their colors are different but the positions are the same as the F-16. Maybe F-18s are different? The “E” bracket is indeed backward compared to the F-16 on the T-45 which I find insane. If the TVV is aligned with the top of the “E” you are too slow (high AOA). That just seems nuts to me. For triple giggles there is an external AOA light system to be viewed from deck where green is too slow and red is too fast. Naval aviators are the best in the world… they’d have to be with human interface design like that!
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Exhibit A:
Looks like I might do up a post on how all this works as there’s a lot of duff info getting passed here.
Very nice you did well to find that. On a lighter note, Yep we have specialist in duff here. Homer is alive and well represented.
Mmmmm beer :munch:
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Exhibit A:
Looks like I might do up a post on how all this works as there’s a lot of duff info getting passed here.
Nice clip!..and note the “E” bracket in the Hornet…