Someone Please Convince Me That Mavericks Aren't Bugged
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I’ve probably viewed 10-12 training videos and mimicked EXACTLY what they’re doing to boresight a Maverick and read the manual, the -1 and -34 as well, but I’m obviously doing something wrong because I’ll be damned if I can use the things correctly. Here’s what I do.
1. Make sure Mavs are powered on, then uncage the first missile on each pylon.
2. Lock a target with my FCR, then with my TGP.
3. Once locked with TGP, I get the TGT HADF fault, which I clear.
3. Make the Mav the SOI, scroll to the same target TMS up to lock, then hit the BSGT OSB, which flashes white.
4. TMS down to clear the WPN, then make the TGP the SOI again. TMS up, which begins the handoff sequence.
5. Ok so far so good, here’s where it goes to shit. Sometimes, Mav/TGP hand off begins and succeeds, with the “c” now showing above the pylon station. Sometimes, I get another TGT HADF fault, with what appears to be no rhyme nor reason as to why.
Questions:
1. I’ve seen videos where they clear the fault after each occurrence, some hitting the master caution to clear, some the ACK clear button and some then going into the TEST to clear the fault there too and some not doing anything until after the boresight(s) of both pylons are complete. Which one is proper and must be done and in what order (if any)?
2. Do you have to uncage and boresight each missile (don’t think so), or just each pylon/station?
3. Does the Mav cross have to stop flashing and be in the keyhole to boresight/handoff properly?
Reward:
I have all the kids I need so I’m willing to trade my left nut for someone who can write down a step-by-step procedure that is foolproof if followed. Again, please don’t point me to the manual(s) cause I’ve read all three forward and backward on the employment of the Maverick and am still screwing it up. I may not be an Einstein, but jeez, if you can’t figure it out by watching a dozen videos and reading 3 manuals, it makes me wonder how real pilots do it? I’m told by someone who has actually shot a Mav that the BMS way is actually harder than real life, or so he claims.
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You’ve got it down, I don’t worry about the failure… usually happens when outside the MAVs range +15miles or so…you will sometimes get the I above the station as well. Just TMS up again when the carat gets in the zone… c should appear. Cross will flash if not in keyhole or parameters not met… be gentle on the course corrections. You need to only boresight on each pylon. Also, I don’t break lock on the WPN page… DMS over to the TGP then TMS down. Hope this helps.
If you haven’t watched Supanova’s YouTube video on the subject, I would direct you there
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There’s already a simple checklist in Weapons Checklist.pdf (pdf pp.6-7) in BMS\Docs\Checklists directory (you can blame me about pointing you to the manuals :biggrin1:). You have the BSGT procedure pretty much correct already. Like Quasi_Stellar said, the occasional failure of target handoff may be caused by too far distance to the target. Range less than 15 NM should be good.
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I’m told by someone who has actually shot a Mav that the BMS way is actually harder than real life, or so he claims.
Shot with a F-16? because I seriously doubt this sentence then…
Mavericks in 4.33 has some bugs yes, but not really related to the specific problem you described here. Your problem must be related to something else, could be the range as explained here. From experience the best way to describe why you can’t get it to work like all others is by recording and uploading the vid, then usually you will get 10 anwers after 10 minutes as to the why
And no need to give up a nut, at least not yet :mrgreen:
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I think Quasi_stellar got it, Actrade needs to be in range (visible Mav bar with the caret on the right of HUD) before starting the process. You don’t need to do it for each Mav just the pylon. Handoff can be much easier than what I read. For example, don’t uncage before you designate target on the TGP.
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I’ve probably viewed 10-12 training videos and mimicked EXACTLY what they’re doing to boresight a Maverick and read the manual, the -1 and -34 as well, but I’m obviously doing something wrong because I’ll be damned if I can use the things correctly. Here’s what I do…
That’s not what the -34 tells you to do. Page 166 should be your definitive guide for boresighting Mavs.
Pages 166 & 167 took longer to create than any other pages in an effort to try to make them as foolproof as possible (the real checklist is much shorter and assumes a lot of knowledge). The checklist on page 166 will work if you’re using the FCR or TGP to boresight your Mavs. You seem to be adding in additional unnecessary steps that you may have picked up from the videos.
For example:
2. If you’re going to boresight using the TGP there is no need to ‘lock’ anything with the FCR. When you move the FCR cursors initially you are moving the SPI, so the TGP will already be ‘looking’ where your FCR is when you switch to it.
3. You only need to press F-ACK to clear the PFLD at the end of the boresighting process (point 19 on the checklist). If you’re going to test handoff afterwards then the AV light in the PFL will go off automatically when you achieve a successful handoff (point 25).
4. There is no need to TMS down. A Master Mode change (page 167 - point 22) will reject all targets, but there is no need to do this until you’ve boresighted all AGM-65 stores stations and want to test for a successful handoff.
That said a video of you going through the process would really help to see what you’re doing. And as already mentioned range is definitely a factor in 4.33 too.
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You’ve got it down, I don’t worry about the failure… usually happens when outside the MAVs range +15miles or so…you will sometimes get the I above the station as well. Just TMS up again when the carat gets in the zone… c should appear. Cross will flash if not in keyhole or parameters not met… be gentle on the course corrections. You need to only boresight on each pylon. Also, I don’t break lock on the WPN page… DMS over to the TGP then TMS down. Hope this helps.
If you haven’t watched Supanova’s YouTube video on the subject, I would direct you there
Probably watched it 5 times lol!
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Shot with a F-16? because I seriously doubt this sentence then…
Mavericks in 4.33 has some bugs yes, but not really related to the specific problem you described here. Your problem must be related to something else, could be the range as explained here. From experience the best way to describe why you can’t get it to work like all others is by recording and uploading the vid, then usually you will get 10 anwers after 10 minutes as to the why
And no need to give up a nut, at least not yet :mrgreen:
A-10 pilot.
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You’ve got it down, I don’t worry about the failure… usually happens when outside the MAVs range +15miles or so…you will sometimes get the I above the station as well. Just TMS up again when the carat gets in the zone… c should appear. Cross will flash if not in keyhole or parameters not met… be gentle on the course corrections. You need to only boresight on each pylon. Also, I don’t break lock on the WPN page… DMS over to the TGP then TMS down. Hope this helps.
If you haven’t watched Supanova’s YouTube video on the subject, I would direct you there
I will watch it again, but I could have sworn Supanova says to TMS down on the WPN BEFORE clearing the TGP.
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That’s not what the -34 tells you to do. Page 166 should be your definitive guide for boresighting Mavs.
Pages 166 & 167 took longer to create than any other pages in an effort to try to make them as foolproof as possible (the real checklist is much shorter and assumes a lot of knowledge). The checklist on page 166 will work if you’re using the FCR or TGP to boresight your Mavs. You seem to be adding in additional unnecessary steps that you may have picked up from the videos.
For example:
2. If you’re going to boresight using the TGP there is no need to ‘lock’ anything with the FCR. When you move the FCR cursors initially you are moving the SPI, so the TGP will already be ‘looking’ where your FCR is when you switch to it.
3. You only need to press F-ACK to clear the PFLD at the end of the boresighting process (point 19 on the checklist). If you’re going to test handoff afterwards then the AV light in the PFL will go off automatically when you achieve a successful handoff (point 25).
4. There is no need to TMS down. A Master Mode change (page 167 - point 22) will reject all targets, but there is no need to do this until you’ve boresighted all AGM-65 stores stations and want to test for a successful handoff.
That said a video of you going through the process would really help to see what you’re doing. And as already mentioned range is definitely a factor in 4.33 too.
I will RTFM again and ignore all video advice and see if that helps. Regarding point one, I just lock the FCR because it takes me so long to boresight, I’m looking for targets beyond visual range to use to lock the TGP at max visual range. I think at least part of my problem is trying to boresight beyond Mav DLZ. Regarding my point 3 (and just in case the manual isn’t clear), does the Mav have to be in the “keyhole” to boresight?
EDIT: FWIW, the correct pages in the -34 are 163-165, not 166-167, which is about HARMS.
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I will RTFM again and ignore all video advice and see if that helps. Regarding point one, I just lock the FCR because it takes me so long to boresight, I’m looking for targets beyond visual range to use to lock the TGP at max visual range. I think at least part of my problem is trying to boresight beyond Mav DLZ. Regarding my point 3 (and just in case the manual isn’t clear), does the Mav have to be in the “keyhole” to boresight?
EDIT: FWIW, the correct pages in the -34 are 163-165, not 166-167, which is about HARMS.
Boresighting will take less than 30 seconds once you get comfortable with it, but a good timesaver is to set your Steerpoint 2 to a nearby town so you can quickly find suitable Point Track buildings after you’ve taken off and before you climb to altitude (assuming you’ve powered on your missiles during your ramp start). That way if you’re planning to boresight with the TGP you never even need to use the FCR, as you’ll see buildings in your TGP when you switch to that steerpoint.
I’m not sure about the keyhole but it makes sense to do that because if you’re pointing at the ‘target’ it’s easier to find on the WPN page on those annoying occasions when one of your launchers are well off boresight to begin with.
Check your -34 is Change 4.33**.1**. You might be looking at the original -34 that shipped with 4.33.
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Interesting that nowhere in the -34 checklist does it mention being within the Mav’s DLZ to boresight. Also, it doesn’t seem to indicate you need to be in the keyhole to boresight, although item 15 may being saying that (my bold emphasis). Love the manuals, but with all the trouble many of us have with Mavs, I guess it could be a little clearer in future revisions.
15. TMS - Up and release; confirm correct target tracked and that BSGT appears next to OSB 20
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Interesting that nowhere in the -34 checklist does it mention being within the Mav’s DLZ to boresight. Also, it doesn’t seem to indicate you need to be in the keyhole to boresight, although item 15 may being saying that (my bold emphasis). Love the manuals, but with all the trouble many of us have with Mavs, I guess it could be a little clearer in future revisions.
15. TMS - Up and release; confirm correct target tracked and that BSGT appears next to OSB 20
Point 15 is just asking you to manually check and confirm that both the TGP and WPN pages are tracking the same object before you hit OSB 20.
The manuals are like the rest of BMS, a work-in-progress. Expect improvements in the next version of both, the benchmark is realism after all; though if you watch a load of videos with different or misleading information and get confused as a result is that an issue with the manuals?
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Point 15 is just asking you to manually check and confirm that both the TGP and WPN pages are tracking the same object before you hit OSB 20.
The manuals are like the rest of BMS, a work-in-progress. Expect improvements in the next version of both, the benchmark is realism after all; though if you watch a load of videos with different or misleading information and get confused as a result is that an issue with the manuals?
The only time I watch videos is when the manual is unclear to me. In this case, as many have noted, the manual doesn’t say anything about being within the Mav DLZ, nor does it say anything about being in the keyhole to boresight, yet some BMS veterans say it will cause problems if you don’t. I still don’t know if that is true or untrue based on the mixed responses in this thread. Regarding the -34, I am looking at the BMS 1F-16CM-34-1-1 version that is posted in the forums by Red Dog. I assume that is the most current and the pages listed are as I stated.
On a final point, please don’t take my questions/comments as ingratitude for all of the work you, Red and countless others have done. As a family man, I can only imagine all of the time and effort you guys put in. I’m simply trying to point out what is for me, the most difficult issue I have in the game. From talking to others in online games, a lot of people have difficulty boresighting the Mav to the point where guys simply won’t fly with them, which is silly since the Mav is an important AG weapon. As an ex-USAF language instructor, we were taught that if your students aren’t getting what you’re teaching, you may want to re-evaluate your teaching method. In this case, I’m simply saying that there MAY be some steps missing or that could be made more clear for the procedure, but since I obviously don’t do it right, I certainly could be wrong, hence the reason for the thread. Cheers!
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For the fun of it, just to state that there are cases where the real manuals are not accurate enough compared with what the real bird systems can and will do.
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So the source to our code is more accurate for BMS…
Very well could be…since neither of us are A-10 or F-16 pilots IRL, only they would know for sure.
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For the fun of it, just to state that there are cases where the real -34 is not accurate enough compared with what the real bird systems can and will do.
Correct, but this implementation isn’t from 3-4, at least not only from 3-4…
(For sure YOU know that :))
Very well could be…since neither of us are A-10 or F-16 pilots IRL, only they would know for sure.
Exactly. Now think of what you just said and tell me you still have doubts :mrgreen:
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Ah, the one posted on the forum has been reformatted to A4 to match the others for those that want printed copies, the one in your Docs folder as part of your install is US Letter and the one I’m referencing. The content is the same however.
Constructive criticism is always welcome, so keep it coming
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