Ramp start sequence
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I’ve been using Red Dogs cockpit checklist & ramp start checklist all this while, and have built up some experience and I can manage to do each & every step & be ready within 10 minutes plus plus. (Note - I do EVERY step there is, including all the tests)
Then I read through “Ramp start in 3 sweeps” in the -1 by Red Dog, since I thought maybe I can do it faster and with less reference to the checklists.
I noticed that with experience, the sweep method is much faster.
I also developed a few steps on my own.My question is during ramp start, is there any particular step which must be done before another step?
Not asking the obvious like make sure power must be available before MAL & IND tests can be performed, engine must be running before EPU tests, INS must be aligned before bla bla bla etc. You get the idea… -
I think your ready to go, as long as you let the FCR do its bit test.
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The thing with check-lists is that you develop a pattern, if you learned it wit for example RD check-listes just keep to it. If you start doing Stuff that can be done before or after in a different way … You may get confused. Stick to one way of doing it and you will be fine. Hope my input was helpful
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Awesome, well said!!
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Personally I still think checklists are important.
What I would do to is not to refer to checklist, but after I’ve done all the sweeps, I still do a run through of the checklist (albeit quickly), and I might suddenly go “damn, I think I missed that switch”. -
There are two ways of following check-listes that got reached to me, First one is the point per point check-list and second method is the lead technique.
Point per point you follow each Step of the check-list. Lead way is when you do several checks By memory and then verify quickly you did not miss any steps.
Personally i do the point per point when in what i call critical mission or flight. For example for a very demanding flight i do step by step, this helps me to get more mentally ready.
For some checks Step by step is not appropriate, like engine start or shutdown, the séquence of actions to be carried out won’t really allow you to make a pause in between. So you can combine lead and step By step.
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There are checklists and there are procedure lists. The first one you do then read. In the second to read then do. That doesn’t mean you can’t use the same piece of paper for both purposes.
Yes there are some things that have to go before other things. There are also other things that make no sense to do in a weird order even if the plane functions. There are lastly orders that make the best use of time or are otherwise better organized. Let’s call those category 1 2 and 3 for mechanically necessary, good for safety, and convenient. There aren’t too many cat 1s compared to the 2s and 3s.
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My question is during ramp start, is there any particular step which must be done before another step?
In BMS, not that I’m aware of. You could theoretically throw all the switches on and crank the engine and not experience much(?) trouble.
That said, in reality there is one sequence that is not written in any manual. This is what I’ve learned from Vipers in the Storm, observation from YouTube videos (real life, not sim), and an F-16 crew chief:
As soon as the engine is on and you do the Probe Heat, OHEAT, and MAL checks, immediately do SEC check and EPU check before doing anything else.
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In BMS, … You could theoretically throw all the switches on and crank the engine and not experience much(?) trouble.
No => IRS issue.
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IRS = Internal Revenue Service?
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IRS = Internal Revenue Service?
Inertial Reference System. (like INS but using gyro-laser)
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Scnazzy. What does one have to do to mess it up in BMS? I haven’t had the pleasure of experiencing that.
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Scnazzy. What does one have to do to mess it up in BMS? I haven’t had the pleasure of experiencing that.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?19429-alignment-issue&highlight=checklist
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My question is during ramp start, is there any particular step which must be done before another step?
in reality there is one sequence that is not written in any manual. This is what I’ve learned from Vipers in the Storm, observation from YouTube videos (real life, not sim), and an F-16 crew chief: As soon as the engine is on and you do the Probe Heat, OHEAT, and MAL checks, immediately do SEC check and EPU check before doing anything else.
EXACTLY. Newer real manuals CLEARLY state this step, the Technical Order was firstly published along with the M3 software update and manual. So you get how important these 2 steps are. I have informed the appropriate ppl quite some years now along with documentation and proves to reflect these in bms, but still no manuals or checklists correspond to this part of reality. In 16th we use the correct cl’s to correspond to these changes, which in rl are valid for all versions and blocks of the viper.
So the answer is yes, follow the old (current) checklists in rl and you’ll screw your plane, flight, mission, and have a very very angry Sq commander and master chief.
SEC check: If not passed, you shutdown the bird and jump to the next available aircraft (if any and if configured for you mission). So absolutely no need to have systems powered up and timing-in wasting time.
EPU Check: If not passed, same as above. If systems are powered up, there are all going to screw due to overcurrents and short circuits following the generators and power buses activations and resets. So you might have pass the check itself and have a working and reliable EPU, but just have burned most of your electronics.
My 2c.
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Raptor, that’s because the F16 in BMS is not M3
Rant On
beside ppl here want to power all system before starting the jet
So why would the BMS documentation would document a new (nevertheless important) item that’s past M3 update
Ppl here don’t bother anyway and want to do it the savage way
And probably 1 BMS flyer out of 20 makes the SEC and EPU checks anyway
Matter of fact 1 out of 10 doesn’t ramp
Rant offthat’s it I feel better now
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Probe Heat, OHEAT, and MAL checks first sounds obvious, regardless if the checklist says it in that order, no?
If you just started your jet, you want to check if the overheat warning works. Otherwise you could be sitting on an overheating engine without getting warned in time.
MAL check same, if not all lights light up and sounds can be heard, you might find yourself in a dangerous situation later on without knowing it.
In that point of view, SEC & EPU checks are indeed something I do next (although I do quickly power up avionics and start aligning INS in between).“And probably 1 BMS flyer out of 20 makes the SEC and EPU checks anyway”.
Well at our last LAN I gave a 2,5h crash course on proper ramp start, explaining what is checked and why (where applicable). Some because they are building a real pit, others because they fear a BMS update could bring more realism and they’d get screwed if they left out a check and got issues with it in flight later on, and most because they like some more realism in the overall experience.Hell, I’d even be happy when anti icing and stuff gets implemented, even if just for eye candy like SEC, EPU, BIT, FLCS test etc
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@Red:
Raptor, that’s because the F16 in BMS is not M3
Rant On
beside ppl here want to power all system before starting the jet
So why would the BMS documentation would document a new (nevertheless important) item that’s past M3 update
Ppl here don’t bother anyway and want to do it the savage way
And probably 1 BMS flyer out of 20 makes the SEC and EPU checks anyway
Matter of fact 1 out of 10 doesn’t ramp
Rant offthat’s it I feel better now
lol
Dear RD, I do need to answer this, although I would normally not since some things are obvious enough.
I will take your answer just as a personal comment rather than a “team” comment.
Why??
Because, except of been aware of this functionality, in my honest opinion:
1. As numerous times stated by “team members” in this forum, this “product” is freely developed by “you” for “your” fun and enjoyment, and not for the outside players. Thus, (personal; ) statements and expatiation adding what outsiders might do / will not do versus what devs want to code and do for this sim all these years in relation to reality is somewhat unfortunate. The “as real as it gets” -thing doesn’t apply in this case? Because just for the history of this, I could write down here dozens of things and details that the majority of “players” will not do, do not care, are not part of their entertainment, or think are insignificant.
2. As I wrote, this SEC & EPU functionality is independent of the bird block and version, meaning all crews should follow this instruction from the manufacturer, either A MLU’s and C/D Block 30’s to the latest 52’s. I did not stated that it is a “M3 thing”, but that the TO was published on the M3-timeframe.
Let’s wait and see what the future will bring toward this.
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it was meant to be a joke/rant mate
you don’t need to convince me, i was sold a long time ago -
My apologies then since the written language and attitude can be easily misunderstood.
For the case itself, it is not a request or wishlist, just enlightening up some unknown or unnoticed details and waiting for next acts by the proper ppl.
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no need
For the record, my WIP version of the checks - to be released with 4.33 already has the change for EPU and Sec check
as I said, i’m sold since long enough