4.34 ATC : IMPORTANT INFORMATION
-
To whomever likes it.
-
If overhead is not granted that means that there is too much traffic for your flight to be inserted properly
You might therefore have a major collision risk
Would you do an overhead despite denial by the ATC in real life ?
I might include martial court next update
In our wing we almost always do OHB and flights many times return from missions at close proximity.
In 4.34 we had several issues regarding ATC:1. OHB denied (when airport topography and weather permits): our solution is to go unrestricted.
Issue is ATC doesnāt keep separation from other flights (as intended) and thus what we do is change freqs to tower, immediately after being approved by approach (against BMS regulations), in order to hear other flights and coordinate initials.2. IFR: BMS IFR request, which puts you In the cue, is actually a vectored approach (or āRadarā plated where applicable) and if you want to fly the relevant IFR official plate you need to use, again, the unrestricted approachā¦which, again, puts you outside of ATC following and, again, you need to change freqs to tower to be on the same page with other aircrafts.
Would appreciate an OHB ATC logic solution for close multiple flights in applicable weather and applicable airports.
If the flights are too close maybe add a hold point (vector, distance, altitude) or add a slow to speed.Regarding IFR would appreciate an option to have regular IFR in which flight is only vectored to the relevant IAF (ācleared to Wolfā) thence after the IAF each aircraft has ATC following.
Now, I donāt know if these two requests can be done with BMS but the new ATC comms are as close to RL as Iāve seen with software logic and I sure hate to miss using the OHB and IFR options.
-
If OHB is denied this is because the traffic does not allow the tower to insert you correctly in the queue
-
If OHB is denied this is because the traffic does not allow the tower to insert you correctly in the queue
Understood.
Since, however, that weāve been getting denies even on low in traffic TEs with the only BMS ATC logic issue being close proximity of different flights with one already approved for OHB before, maybe it is possible for the next flights that request OHB to be sent to a holding point 10 Nm out at a certain vector and altitude (1000ā separation between flights if more ask).
Thence, when the previous flight passes initial (10Nm aligned with rwy heading) the next flight is cleared to initial (just like when asking ground to taxi for T/O).
The only thing is it needs to be done for every OHB capable airport (holding vector for the 10Nm, initial for each rwy, holding starting alritude).
With current implementation of OHB, while we have the option to use it, in most instances itās inaccessible in mp organized squadron human flights where good weather and airport permits.
Iām not referencing campaigns where the traffic might be heavy but more like a cap of 4-5 flights that request OHB at close proximity. -
Technically, itās not because youāre doing a visual approach type that you canāt be vectored to final, or in case of OHB initial, so perhaps ATC could be upgraded to first check the traffic situation after receiving a request, and then decide:
- (Almost) Clear airspace: cleared straight in
- Other traffic: vectors until initial / final to provide and / or maintain separation
Something else (though slightly related) Iād love to see in a future update is asking tower for a visual landing clearance. Right now, if we donāt pass by approach, whatever we ask tower, itās responded to with a monotone ācontact departureā,whereas in real life, ATC could just give you a clearance as well, traffic permitting. This is especially problematic when taking new guys up for circuit and landing (touch and go) practice, but also after missed approaches, where Tower could clear you straight into the pattern again.
-
The guy in charge stoped dev so not likely to happen
-
Touch and go? Do a separate mission just for this. Only your flight.
When i was young my near by airport was for training in f5.
They where circling for hours doing only touch and go.
Once iirc i counted 10-15 airplane. Tooo young arround 10 so 37 years ago.Sure when you get back from a mission and you go for landing it would be nice for newbs to declare touch and go.
This could be added as a command in the atc commands and the atc re route you. Or just go in touch and go, what will the atc do?
Maybe you should ask again for the landing procedure to get you in the landing queue? Aināt that normal?Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T818A using Tapatalk
-
-
Touch and go? Do a separate mission just for this. Only your flight.
[ā¦]
Maybe you should ask again for the landing procedure to get you in the landing queue? Aināt that normal?We do have our separate TEās for this (in fact, we hardly fly campaigns), but the problem is that we canāt request a new landing procedure without switching to approach and asking it there. This should be completely unnecessary as long as you stay inside the CTR, which is entirely towerās responsibility, and donāt require vectoring. Similarly, IRL a pilot could contact a Tower Controller to enter the CTR coming out of uncontrolled airspace, and land at the airport never talking to the Approach Controller.
Finally, after calling the āgoing aroundā or āairborneā after T&G, Tower could clear you for whatever:
- Maintain runway heading, climb to 3000ft, contact Approach for re-sequencing
- Proceed to and orbit left over [VFR point], 1000ft
- Cleared right downwind runway 18, 1500ft, number 2, number 1 on final
- ā¦
-
We do have our separate TEās for this (in fact, we hardly fly campaigns), but the problem is that we canāt request a new landing procedure without switching to approach and asking it there. This should be completely unnecessary as long as you stay inside the CTR, which is entirely towerās responsibility, and donāt require vectoring. Similarly, IRL a pilot could contact a Tower Controller to enter the CTR coming out of uncontrolled airspace, and land at the airport never talking to the Approach Controller.
Finally, after calling the āgoing aroundā or āairborneā after T&G, Tower could clear you for whatever:
- Maintain runway heading, climb to 3000ft, contact Approach for re-sequencing
- Proceed to and orbit left over [VFR point], 1000ft
- Cleared right downwind runway 18, 1500ft, number 2, number 1 on final
- ā¦
Hypothetically speaking, since no dev deals with it at this time, we should consider a few things:
1. Is it possible to change ATC logic without too much hustle to the dev team in order to have it as a viable update in the coming update instead of, maybe, the coming years.
2. Since weāre dealing with military fast jets, which tend to do OHB in order to have as many aircrafts landing as possible (shorter final/ base and shorter speed reduction (on downwind across the rwy) are the devs willing and able to change the default landing procedure from straight in or vectored final to OHB (which was introduced in 4.34].The issue is simpleā¦the devs introduced OHB to accommodate many requests.
Butā¦by doing that they unintentionally opened the door to a whole new can of worms that mainly includes a better implementation of the OHB procedure.
It might be an opening of a door that might introduce us into the world of RL military ATC without the need for a human to guide everyone out and in.
As it isā¦with OHBās current logic most squads shall continue to treat the airspace on top and around an airport as an uncontrolled one with most human voice calls in the blind on the tower frequency. -
what do you mean ?
Simply what is written. At some point, ppl needs some rests (at least a rest period).
-
Understood.
Since, however, that weāve been getting denies even on low in traffic TEs with the only BMS ATC logic issue being close proximity of different flights with one already approved for OHB before, maybe it is possible for the next flights that request OHB to be sent to a holding point 10 Nm out at a certain vector and altitude (1000ā separation between flights if more ask).
Thence, when the previous flight passes initial (10Nm aligned with rwy heading) the next flight is cleared to initial (just like when asking ground to taxi for T/O).
The only thing is it needs to be done for every OHB capable airport (holding vector for the 10Nm, initial for each rwy, holding starting alritude).
With current implementation of OHB, while we have the option to use it, in most instances itās inaccessible in mp organized squadron human flights where good weather and airport permits.
Iām not referencing campaigns where the traffic might be heavy but more like a cap of 4-5 flights that request OHB at close proximity.i will not make OHB standard approach for AI since this is NOT the case in real
i will allow OHB for any human leader though (if weather permit) since as people are not disciplined enough, it will be better than using unrestricted anyway as it keeps the flight together
-
i will not make OHB standard approach for AI since this is NOT the case in real
i will allow OHB for any human leader though (if weather permit) since as people are not disciplined enough, it will be better than using unrestricted anyway as it keeps the flight together
Much appreciated !
-
Simply what is written. At some point, ppl needs some rests (at least a rest period).
I understand. A break is always good.
-
any chance to hear uhf channel radio calls instead the full frequency channel?
switch uniform 2, 3, 4 instead 295.xx (blue 2, 3, 4)
could be read from dtc loading page?
cheers
-
Hi Dema!
any chance to hear uhf channel radio calls instead the full frequency channel?
switch uniform 2, 3, 4 instead 295.xx (blue 2, 3, 4)
could be read from dtc loading page?
cheers
Nope. Each players can have different presets. And if presents are wrong ā¦ ATC giving Chanelās Preset ID => pilots is AFU.
Giving the full freq is on purpose and intended.
-
Hi Dema!
Nope. Each players can have different presets. And if presents are wrong ā¦ ATC giving Chanelās Preset ID => pilots is AFU.
Giving the full freq is on purpose and intended.
got it, thanks for reply
-
Hi Dema!
Nope. Each players can have different presets. And if presents are wrong ā¦ ATC giving Chanelās Preset ID => pilots is AFU.
Giving the full freq is on purpose and intended.
Interesting, Dee-Jay. From what Iāve read in the past it seems someone ,for example, going to BMS Tactical would say āPush Button 6 or Uniform 6ā.Are we saying that IRL it would be āPush Uniform 6 xxx.xx?ā Iāve noticed that what the carrier ATC does.
-
Interesting, Dee-Jay. From what Iāve read in the past it seems someone ,for example, going to BMS Tactical would say āPush Button 6 or Uniform 6ā.Are we saying that IRL it would be āPush Uniform 6 xxx.xx?ā Iāve noticed that what the carrier ATC does.
Presets are only used for based a/c referencing to known SOPs. External a/c wonāt use those āpresetsā since they might not be the same in some cases.
"Push Uniform 6 xxx.xx
Speaking about Airbases Tower/Approach : Commonly, it makes āno senseā to give a preset and its freq ā¦ that is not compatible with the principle of āminimizing commāsā. Use one or the other.
For AWACS, it is another story ā¦ freq would not be given in clear IRL (enemy can monitor!) , but according to Comm Plan Ids. So in that case, the āfreq code Idā are used (not necessarily equal to SOP presets => they can be different)
I.E.
Comm Plan: Agency/Id/Freq
Primary Tactical : 110A = 250.800
Secondary Tactical : 110B = 132.250Then ā¦
Pilot might set 110A (250.800) on CH6
And choose to have no specific preset for 110B ā¦ or chose any open presets ā¦ up to him or to Squadron SOPs.ā¦ etc ā¦
So IRL, AWACS would not give you the preset nor the freq, but the āFreq Idā :
I.E.
Falcon 1 ; Sentry 1 ; Push Tactical ā1ā ā1ā ā0ā āAlphaā.
-
Presets are only used for based a/c referencing to known SOPs. External a/c wonāt use those āpresetsā since they might not be the same in some cases.
Speaking about Airbases Tower/Approach : Commonly, it makes āno senseā to give a preset and its freq ā¦ that is not compatible with the principle of āminimizing commāsā. Use one or the other.
For AWACS, it is another story ā¦ freq would not be given in clear IRL (enemy can monitor!) , but according to Comm Plan Ids. So in that case, the āfreq code Idā are used (not necessarily equal to SOP presets => they can be different)
I.E.
Comm Plan: Agency/Id/Freq
Primary Tactical : 110A = 250.800
Secondary Tactical : 110B = 132.250Then ā¦
Pilot might set 110A (250.800) on CH6
And choose to have no specific preset for 110B ā¦ or chose any open presets ā¦ up to him or to Squadron SOPs.ā¦ etc ā¦
So IRL, AWACS would not give you the preset nor the freq, but the āFreq Idā :
I.E.
Falcon 1 ; Sentry 1 ; Push Tactical ā1ā ā1ā ā0ā āAlphaā.
I donāt think it necessarily has to be that complicatedā¦.thatās why we have crypto IRL.