Can I ripple four GBU-27 while lasing?
-
I believe if this was the reason, dropping 2 LGBs with 2 ripples instead of both in Pair with a single ripple should not work, yet they do - even though the timing between impacts should be minimal to really make a difference, especially with a single ripple release instead of two ripples.
@Dee-Jay
Any idea why it’s not done with a single ripple in real life, but two single ripples work?Only reason I could think about if releasing 2 bombs in a single pair ripple - more likely than masking since the bombs are flying side by side, not trailing until very close to the target - would be a mid air collision between the bombs.
Actually, it shouldn’t matter how many you drop or how far apart - the real reason it shouldn’t work has far more to do with smoke/dust in the air scattering the laser spot and the following weapons not being able to guide. Can you drop QTY LGBs? Yes. Will you waste ordnance doing it? Most probably.
Personally, I wouldn’t release more than two LGBs on a single spot…and I probably wouldn’t even choose to do that unless I were using penetrating weapons or such so that surface dust were minimized when the second weapon got there…and I couldn’t get a bigger weapon in the first place.
-
OK I’ve done this in 4.33 and now 4.34. The bug I’ve noticed is if you drop 2 2,000lb LGB at once it doesn’t work. 2 separate launches and it seems to work.
I’ve done successful 2 GBU-24 hits on 2 targets in 1 pass, 4 would be a stretch.
Fly at about 20,000ft, slow, auto laser on 30 secs, drop first GBU, about 5 secs later drop second GBU, as soon as first hits move target pointer to second target. Works for targets fairly close together. -
No real point in fixing something that would never be done IRL. GBUs (laser guided) are always dropped one by one.
Whats the point of dropping two GBUs (equiped with high expensive guidance kit) on a same DMPI taking the risk of masking the laser spot, having laser trap … etc … It just makes no sens. Ripples are for unguided bome because “mass effect” compensate the lack of accuracy. But with a bomb able to hit with 1-10m precision, this is not needed and counter productive.
I tried PM’ing you, so I could address this slightly more in-depth, but looks like you have disabled PMs…
What I wanted to say is that I’m sure you know that rippling multiple (usually 2) LGB / JDAM on a single DPI at the same time is a perfectly valid tactic, one that is trained and employed quite frequently IRL, so I don’t understand why you say it isn’t? Whether or not that tactic has its uses in BMS is another discussion, however.
-
OK I’ve done this in 4.33 and now 4.34. The bug I’ve noticed is if you drop 2 2,000lb LGB at once it doesn’t work. 2 separate launches and it seems to work.
I’ve done successful 2 GBU-24 hits on 2 targets in 1 pass, 4 would be a stretch.
Fly at about 20,000ft, slow, auto laser on 30 secs, drop first GBU, about 5 secs later drop second GBU, as soon as first hits move target pointer to second target. Works for targets fairly close together.Hey, Hubert!! Did that and worked perfectly!! Thank you for sharing it with us. So the problem is rippling LGBs and dropping them at the same time. It could be something related to the possibility of a mid-air collision, since they’re aiming at the same target, apart from what Stevie already said. Thank you, again.
-
During the F-16 B course at Luke and Holloman AFB, F-16 students do riple drop 4xgbu-12’s each …. with 8 good hits on target. So, it is possible.
-
OK I’ve done this in 4.33 and now 4.34. The bug I’ve noticed is if you drop 2 2,000lb LGB at once it doesn’t work. 2 separate launches and it seems to work.
I’ve done successful 2 GBU-24 hits on 2 targets in 1 pass, 4 would be a stretch.
Fly at about 20,000ft, slow, auto laser on 30 secs, drop first GBU, about 5 secs later drop second GBU, as soon as first hits move target pointer to second target. Works for targets fairly close together.Good gouge!
-
I even often used 2 seconds spread. If you have both target groups already in TGP.Not safe IRL I imagine:-)Cheers Obi1
-
There are some real vids during Desert Storm and Bosnia wars showing hitting same targets (mostly larger ones, factories, bridges, bunkers etc) with 2 GBU’s in short ripple, fired from the same host…
-
As some others posted before, it’s indeed a valid tactic of which plenty of evidence can be found on the internet. Reasons I can think of might be availability of weapons/platforms, time sensitive targeting, avoiding collateral damage (e.g. multiple GBU-12’s in series on one DMPI will likely cause less collateral damage than a single GBU-10). I ripple LGB’s quite often, especially during one-pass NOE loft attacks therefore I really hope this issue can be fixed in a next update, as well as two other bomb related issues (already present in 4.33):
- JDAM/WCMD bomb acceleration/deceleration after release
- Release sequence of bombs on TER’s (in Ikaros theater for 4.33 this is correctly modeled)
Nonetheless, I’m very gratefull for all the work that everyone puts into this great sim!
-
There are some real vids during Desert Storm and Bosnia wars showing hitting same targets (mostly larger ones, factories, bridges, bunkers etc) with 2 GBU’s in short ripple, fired from the same host…
Could be two different laser codes with two JTAC designating two different DMPI near each other.
-
As some others posted before, it’s indeed a valid tactic of which plenty of evidence can be found on the internet. Reasons I can think of might be availability of weapons/platforms, time sensitive targeting, avoiding collateral damage (e.g. multiple GBU-12’s in series on one DMPI will likely cause less collateral damage than a single GBU-10).
“multiple GBU-12’s in series on one DMPI will likely cause less collateral damage than a single GBU-10”
This is right.
Is it about simulates drop? … and are they talking about laser trap and laser diffraction/absorption by dust clouds? … What happens if the seconds hit few seconds after the fist impact … ? … will the collateral damages be less if the 2nd fall off target because it lost laser spot … ?
I am LBGs qualified. I don’t know about other counties procedures/countries, but personally, yet I won’t play “that game”. (That being said, I don’t have much experience on it yet)
-
Could be two different laser codes with two JTAC designating two different DMPI near each other.
I have at least 1 active F-16 pilot confirming 2 GBU’s on 1 DMPI is an actual used tactic IRL at the moment in a certain air force.
If they come from the same plane, is currently unknown to me. -
I have at least 1 active F-16 pilot confirming 2 GBU’s on 1 DMPI is an actual used tactic IRL at the moment in a certain air force.
Does he also confirm simultaneous drop? (or short interval not waiting the dust could dissipates).
-
Does he also confirm simultaneous drop? (or short interval not waiting the dust could dissipates).
IIRC 2 separate pickles, not 1 ripple.
-
If they come from the same plane, is currently unknown to me.
Depending on wind, coming from two different angles it may be different => 2nd is less susceptible to be “masked”.
IIRC 2 separate pickles, not 1 ripple.
Needs more info. Two separate pickles mean “almost everything”.
-
This post is deleted! -
Few things to consider IRL about LBGs … when I am talking about laser trap, there is not only the aspect as described in MCH-F16 Vol5
… the shapes of the target (dome, circular pillar, tower, bridge … etc …) have some considerable effects on laser spot diffraction an reflection. Ground albedo, water, sand … dust, hase/ moisture has also big effects.
…
Take a look into 8.10.3 Laser-Guided Bomb Operations of the Korea_BEM_Vol5.pdf located into … :\Falcon BMS 4.34\Docs\05 Other Documentation\Real Manuals
-
In all the cases where LGB’s have been dropped in pair or in ripple, critical information is missing. (Laser codes, illuminated by how many sources etc)
According to the document I link below, it is very well possible but with two bombs or more with each one it’s one code and the target being illuminated by four different laser sources. A.valid tactic for some air forces but I can only imagine how carefullnest and how much procedures are involved.
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/docs/p34-3.htm
Must also depend on scenario and study of collateral damage., ROE etc etc
-
Hello mate!
According to the document I link below, it is very well possible but with two bombs or more with each one it’s one code
Where … ? … I only see mentions about two designation (which is the rule quite often).
-
Hello mate!
Where … ? … I only see mentions about two designation (which is the rule quite often).
Hello!
It is not specifically mentioned but when reading it and understanding.it it is for me.the only way. Different sources.
It reminds me that sometimes there are unwritten rules, because you can doesn’t mean it is safe to do.