HELP!! Brevity word
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Need a little help with something I couldn’t find in any manual so far.
What’s the brevity word to say, as the leader of a flight: “we are heading towards waypoint/steerpoint X” ?For example, if I was the leader of a 4 ship flight and I was turning towards steerpoint 1 just after takeoff, still waiting for the others to rejoin, how would I inform the flight members that the lead was heading towards steerpoint 1?
Also, how do I tell a wingman to go to a specific steerpoint? E.g. “Go directly to steerpoint 5”
Thanks!
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Push # stp.
Ex: push 2, 3 etcNote: stp 1 is the airbase
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nope
Push 2 means go to UHF channel 2
Pushing : Departing designated point.When the flight is following the route, #1 dose not call out the STP’s. STP change is assumed
Use “Reference” -
nope
Push 2 means go to UHF channel 2
Pushing : Departing designated point.When the flight is following the route, #1 dose not call out the STP’s. STP change is assumed
Use “Reference”Yep, what I thought, but for some reason it’s not clearly stated in any document.
I guess reference can be used for more than just headings. -
I don’t see anything official in any publication but I hear Falcon fliers use “reference” frequently to indicate which waypoint is the one of interest. No wait it’s in the 2003 JBrevity. The professional way to do it is to discuss how the rejoin should happen after takeoff in a briefing room on the ground. In air a “Cowboy1, reference 3” I would expect flight to turn toward steer three very soon. Brevity is nice but you don’t have to be limited by it. Anything that does the job is good enough.
For the most part if you did a good job briefing you barely have to say anything in the air. The flight path, target assignment, speeds, altitudes, formations, spacings, channels, etc. are all planned so words in the air should always be limited to decisions and ideas that couldn’t be preplanned. For normal things that are expected like taking off, raising gear, following the flight plan…why talk? Does anyone really need to be told that waypoint 4 comes after 3?
For low rejoin post takeoff you fly the contract rejoin speed, turn (bank or G), alt or climb angle and wingies will find you. Especially with DL on it’s really hard to get lost and not find lead. If the weather bad, weapons heavy, long transit, fuel tight, etc. then a rejoin on top is nice. Everyone flies the speed-mach climb profile and doesn’t worry about rejoin until lead slows down to best range or DTOT caret speed. The more you look into it, the more predictable everything becomes.
For an unplanned split event I might phrase it as “Two, Lead. Split to anchor waypoint 3.” It depends on why I wanted him to go over there. If I was going to be at the location and it wasn’t obvious how to rejoin me, then something like “Two, lead. Reference waypoint 3 for rejoin.”
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Push # stp.
Ex: push 2, 3 etcNote: stp 1 is the airbase
Not correct.
PUSH (FREQ/CHANNEL/TAD): Switch to designated frequency, channel or TAD. Without response to the speaker.
PUSHING: Departing designated point.
PUSHING: (GROUP/DESCRIPTION) Group(s) have turned cold and will continue to be monitored.
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As Fredref said, there is nothing specific for this.
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“we are heading towards waypoint/steerpoint X” ?
Wingmen’s 1st responsibility is to always maintain the visual with the leader, so leader always assumes wingman is visual and wingman only talks back if he is blind to his leader. The story continues something like “shut the f@ck up and follow the leader”. The rest have been discussed in the briefing, moreover each flight member through experience should know what to expect building the overall field SA. That is why we spend money having them up flying following training and standards, in order to everybody think and act as a unique brain when time comes.
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Wingmen’s 1st responsibility is to always maintain the visual with the leader, so leader always assumes wingman is visual and wingman only talks back if he is blind to his leader. The story continues something like “shut the f@ck up and follow the leader”. The rest have been discussed in the briefing, moreover each flight member through experience should know what to expect building the overall field SA. That is why we spend money having them up flying following training and standards, in order to everybody think and act as a unique brain when time comes.
Absolutely correct!
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Always used “push” in my Squadron.
We use “switch” for radio channel.
I admit the error in my 1st post above.
Sorry.Regards
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Always used “push” in my Squadron.
We use “switch” for radio channel.Very common mistake from most of Virtual Pilots community.
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brevity isn’t really necessary, nor is announcing a steerpoint turn. but most i’ve heard use “reference steer #” or “check (direction) (steer)” or whatever. radio should be pretty uncluttered during steerpoint flight so you don’t really have to use shortened brevity. just say “we’re going steer #” or whatever. nothing terribly technical required.
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@Cik:
brevity isn’t really necessary, nor is announcing a steerpoint turn. but most i’ve heard use “reference steer #” or “check (direction) (steer)” or whatever. radio should be pretty uncluttered during steerpoint flight so you don’t really have to use shortened brevity. just say “we’re going steer #” or whatever. nothing terribly technical required.
Exactly. I use the term “steers” for the reference. Very useful when you got a strike package behind you at your last waypoint and you have to clear out the area first before the strike package can continue. For example:
You are a SEAD/Escort combo package. You are flying ahead of a strike group. Suddenly, you get SAM spikes everywhere, or a good 4 ship of Migs heading your way. To protect the strike group, you tell them to orbit a specific waypoint. Sort of “hold” at this point until clear. Brevity would be something like this…
“Cowboy 11 orbit steers 4”
…then after the waypoint is cleared out…
“Cowboy 11 cleared on steers 5”
No official way of doing it, but it has its uses. Each squad is different so brevity is not set in stone anywhere. Different brevity for certain things are a given. Some brevity is a standard. It depends on how you set up your squad.
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You are flying ahead of a strike group. Suddenly, you get SAM spikes everywhere, or a good 4 ship of Migs heading your way. To protect the strike group, you tell them to orbit a specific waypoint. Sort of “hold” at this point until clear.
Actually, after reporting the spikes back to the COMAO Leader (which is always the Strike Leader), he will tell you what to do, and most probably (except if defined in the briefing) he will not give you back any info on what the strike is doing about that.
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here is all you need to know about your responsibilities as a wingman:
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In short, wingman does NOT talk during a flight because he is ALWAYS assumed to be:
- Visual
- Naked
- Clean
- No joy
- Has no emergency
- He has not been asked for something from his leader
He ONLY speaks to his leader when:
- He is blind
- He is spiked
- He has a radar contact not reported by his leader, or from external sources to the formation
- He has tally
- He has problem with his aircraft systems
- He has been asked something from his leader
Apart those, he sh@ts the f@ck up and safely navigate the bird following his leader.
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Exactly. I use the term “steers” for the reference. Very useful when you got a strike package behind you at your last waypoint and you have to clear out the area first before the strike package can continue. For example:
You are a SEAD/Escort combo package. You are flying ahead of a strike group. Suddenly, you get SAM spikes everywhere, or a good 4 ship of Migs heading your way. To protect the strike group, you tell them to orbit a specific waypoint. Sort of “hold” at this point until clear. Brevity would be something like this…
“Cowboy 11 orbit steers 4”
…then after the waypoint is cleared out…
“Cowboy 11 cleared on steers 5”
No official way of doing it, but it has its uses. Each squad is different so brevity is not set in stone anywhere. Different brevity for certain things are a given. Some brevity is a standard. It depends on how you set up your squad.
Actually, the brevity for this would be to “SPIN”. Usually spin options are prebriefed.
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Actually, after reporting the spikes back to the COMAO Leader (which is always the Strike Leader), he will tell you what to do, and most probably (except if defined in the briefing) he will not give you back any info on what the strike is doing about that.
Not completely true. The strike is not always the package leader. And, after hearing a report from the SEAD/Escort flight ahead of them, they had best orbit there current steerpoint. Any deviation could cross flight with other aircraft in the area (unless so briefed). Boldly going forward would put the strike aircraft at great risk. JSTARS would have the final say with the entire package anyway. So being gunho with your strike aircraft when there is a bunch of SAM’s and Mig’s in the area is IMHO stupid. It would put your strike aircraft at great risk. Better to have’em orbit the last steers until cleared on (either by the SEAD/Escort or JSTARS).
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Actually, the brevity for this would be to “SPIN”. Usually spin options are prebriefed.
Spin or Orbit, either way. I did say that it is different for every squad. The principle remains however.