Tomcatz ShipYard
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I still say :
Take Tom high poly model for lod0 and lod1=lod0 current , lod2=lod1 current etc… How hard is that guys ?
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I still say :
Take Tom high poly model for lod0 and lod1=lod0 current , lod2=lod1 current etc… How hard is that guys ?
Bad loading/swapping of textures at LOD transitions… loading diff textures everytime might be worse than loading a high poly model.
Besides, that would look very odd, LOD0 is amazing 50K poly ship and LOD1 (what distance you can stretch LOD0 to?) is some shitty 2K poly… OTOH carrier is a large object but still a LOD1 can be MUCH lower poly without showing much difference from say 3-4K feet. In many new models development (look Hayeb and others) the LOD1 have much lower polys but it looks similar enough to LOD0.
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Bad loading/swapping of textures at LOD transitions… loading diff textures everytime might be worse than loading a high poly model.
Besides, that would look very odd, LOD0 is amazing 50K poly ship and LOD1 (what distance you can stretch LOD0 to?) is some shitty 2K poly… OTOH carrier is a large object but still a LOD1 can be MUCH lower poly without showing much difference from say 3-4K feet. In many new models development (look Hayeb and others) the LOD1 have much lower polys but it looks similar enough to LOD0.
+1000
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I tried LOL
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Great! that’s the way to go
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Perfect Tom, with distance lod like that, your are right on track.
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Excellent !
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This is Cool, I think Yoni should buy us all a round or 5 of beers, LOL
RAM22
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Sure deaggregation values decide if an object become alive so of course its related to poly count and LOD levels, think this carrier deaggregation distance is say 70NM (I don’t know real value but I bet its at least that), then this 50K model is kicking when you are 70NM from the carrier! now I ask what is the problem to make say 4 lower LODs with say 8/4/2K polys with last one as just a square? so this way you have 8K poly model for while in the distance and full nice carrier when close enough to it… is it so hard to invest that little time to create lower LODs?? I mean compared to the time it takes to make the high LOD model itself?
From my experience, many objects in bubble, especially living objects like ACs (most demanding, well makes sense) and GUs cause the most serious FPS drop in the sim, and that’s because the code is loading much more than just a simple 2D object… for example at deagg moment every 4-ship become from single 2D brain to 4 3D sim aware brains with all processing done in RT, many of those every frame (think FMs, avionics modes - even for AI, SMS code, FCC code, weapons, trails and heat effects, GFX model + textures etc etc…)
So u say that a vga draws a 50 k poly model from 70NM in which is like a dot? and this has an impact?
Well yes and maybe not…???
What I mean:
I just did a test with trees… 90k polys every little forest… Hundreds of leaves (shadows etc… u know how heavy they are) and I was getting 25 to 5 FPS on instant action… when I had them in view I had the low when not in view 25fps… without them at all >30… mostly near 40 lets say average 35…
So u see even if they are not visible goes down the FPS which is pure CPU I would say…When I had 5FPS there where 3 to 5 times those trees (populated)… thus about 300k polys… I had tested 500k polys on the same scene and the FPS where great… why??? the models where buildings… not complex models… No much shadows no leaves… lol
Where does that leads us?It’s not just poly count… depends and how complex the model is?
Just few poly values about Kimpo building…
For the Principal Domestic Terminal. (Normal model)
LOD0 = 4400
LOD1 = 3900
LOD2 = 2100
LOD3 = 1300For the Secondary Domestic Terminal. (Normal model)
LOD0 = 780
LOD1 = 600
LOD2 = 243
LOD3 = no LOD3For the Secondary Domestic Terminal. (Damaged model)
LOD0 = 780
LOD1 = 600
LOD2 = 243
LOD3 = no LOD3For the Secondary Domestic Terminal. (Destroyed model)
LOD0 = 1800
LOD1 = 1200
LOD2 = 560
LOD3 = no LOD3…
Tis is the right way top work … This is of course much more difficult and demanding than doing a single high ploy model.
Yes and u end up with 18 fps on the taxiway… r u 100% sure this is the way?
BMartins build 5 times more buildings there with no LODS and the FPS hit was a joke… -
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imho 4k and 1k lods are enough… acutally one single 1k lod is enough for lower visible lod.
keep them coming~ expect next update in 3-4 weeks!
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So u say that a vga draws a 50 k poly model from 70NM in which is like a dot? and this has an impact?
Well yes and maybe not…???
What I mean:
I just did a test with trees… 90k polys every little forest… Hundreds of leaves (shadows etc… u know how heavy they are) and I was getting 25 to 5 FPS on instant action… when I had them in view I had the low when not in view 25fps… without them at all >30… mostly near 40 lets say average 35…
So u see even if they are not visible goes down the FPS which is pure CPU I would say…When I had 5FPS there where 3 to 5 times those trees (populated)… thus about 300k polys… I had tested 500k polys on the same scene and the FPS where great… why??? the models where buildings… not complex models… No much shadows no leaves… lol
Where does that leads us?It’s not just poly count… depends and how complex the model is?
Arty I’m not a real GFX expert, I don’t write engine parts and 3D models aren’t my expertise, but… I’m listening to those who know and I try to pass what I hear and what WD defined as standards for BMS modeling specs… I’m sure the complexity of the model is involved, I’m no expert but I assume the DX/HW can smooth stuff, maybe 500K building isn’t complex as 100K tree, I don’t know for sure (probably there are answer on performance on the net if you are really interested). But know this, if you have a 50K poly ship at 70NM, even if it is just a dot in view, still those polys are processed… and yet you are wrong this is not related to CPU as if you know little how DX work, you know that vertices definitions are directly managed by the device, which is your V-Card. Cards has special HW architecture that its main job is to process vertices, sample textures etc at MUCH higher rate and efficiency than CPU, you can see that easily when coding DX (even small windows apps that come with DX SDK), you can change the processing from HW to SW and see how the CPU as way harder time to manage it…
So what is the real impact of a 50K poly ship at 70NM range? don’t know… but I don’t want to know… because we have proofs that too high poly models within Falcon environment (especially DC) may ship FPS down the drain… same reason why we use L2 for terrain resolution and not L0 (think we wouldn’t want higher res terrain LOD which already exists if it was sane FPS-wise??) etc… that’s why we keep LODs and keep modelers life a little harder, because this is a game and things need to be implemented into a DB and run and work at RT, they aren’t just nice screenshots on a wallpaper.
You want to know how vertices can kill any card? just ask I’ll make you a small PS effect, launch it and in 2 seconds your FPS will go down to single digits not matter which card you have…
And to speak practically on the case here, I don’t know what are the standards for a ship in game but I assume the higher LOD can be pretty high, better communicate with WD for details, same goes for every none-standard model that polys/tris count are in question…
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I’m with u I-Hawk… I hear u…
I’m not an expert also. That is why in my above posts as u seen I putted question marks in my statements… I also wonder.I just make some models and then test them in the engine. What I say are from my personal experience.
Also my statement for the mountain going to Mohammed was based on what?:
Tom Catz carrier model is phenomenal. Mav-JP says he is close to make it work as it should. PPL are asking for Carrier ops for long time now. F-18 is undergoing… F-14 pit also…So I say an exception could be made here…
Why???:
Most theaters will have 1 tops 2 carriers… also to balance this is like flying from Kimpo. Kimpo AB and surrounding buildings are heavy… So I put both as the same…
Tom already made the low poly’s so let’s see how it behaves first before we tosh it to fire…
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Yes and u end up with 18 fps on the taxiway… r u 100% sure this is the way?
BMartins build 5 times more buildings there with no LODS and the FPS hit was a joke…Yes we are sure because I made most of these building. I give the spec to deejay with the original files. You need to understand that Kimpo is a really particular thing. When we do Kunsan first, we have place over 1200 features on a huge place. But military architecture is easy to do (to be honest, that’s always close to be a simple box). Kimpo is a completely another story:
- 1: the emplacement. Kimpo is made close to Seoul city, witch as always been more FPS killer. So you already have a small % of FPS cost in the balance.
- 2: Kimpo architecture is a nightmare. The building is pretty complex. Lot of curve, so much more poly. So that’s when the distance lod come in. But even with it, all the building is place in a small compact zone. And when you are on the airport (ie parking, taxi), you have all the lid zero generate on the same time.
- 3: the building is so big that I use a little trick to be sure that a single bomb cannot destroy the whole building if it be dropped in the other side of the building: is split the building in 6 parts. So in fact you don’t have one terminal but 6 littles for lod0, 6 for Lod 1, 6 for lod 2, same for damage and destroy model. So single terminal is : (63)+(63)+(6*3)=54 parts.
Drop a bomb on the domestic terminal and you’ll understand. - 4: some building use different Ptype for some glass effect, lights, etc.
- 5: now ad casting shadows for all of theyse and you can understand the problem. To be honest I’m pretty happy that the FPS cost is not much more hard, I fly with more than 30 FPS with all that things.
I thing that Recker, Banger and me have pretty good manage that airport with the cards we having for play.
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Arty nobody said anything about Tom’s carrier model can’t be a standard one? IMHO with lower LODs it can probably go in or at least discuss the poly count with the experts (WD is first I think of) and find a balanced number that is acceptable for a carrier. I agree with you that a carrier isn’t like just another AC or ground unit, it requires some special decisions. Let’s see what happen
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Hello,
thank you guys. I have a problem:
I could not find a slot for a carrier with about 4 or more LODs. And I wasnt able to find out how to add more them one slot.
Any ideas?
Otherwise- I can share my CVN -LOD`s this weekend. So everbody can test the carrier in his own theatre under own conditions….
Greetings,
Tom