LGB low level toss
-
Fragged with LGBs (GBU10s) against a depot, but low cloud and AA prevented high level delivery. If I go in low and toss the LGBs (hopefully with the TGP locked on target) and I slice back sharply away, I’ll presumably mask the laser. In this case will the bombs continue ballistically to the originally designated target, or will they shoot long like GBU 24Bs as a safety measure?
-
As far as I know the BMS F-16 doesn’t do the “energy optimum” release for LGBs any different than dumb bombs.
-
LGBs are energy bound now, AFAIK they do release far over the target if not steered.
you shouldn’t rely on them hitting anything if you’re not guiding. if you want them to hit grab a friend for buddy lase and keep him below the clouds but in a decent perch for the lase.
you also might be able to lase as long as you can do a quick sliceback and then beam out and climb to angels 6 or so. the bombs will be in the air for a while when tossing, you might have the time.
-
Cut left, and let the TGP look back under your shoulder…by cutting lfet you shouldn’t mask, but you’ll need to cut sharp and then roll out as you clear. You’ll also need to both slow down and climb slightly. Otherwise, buddy lase and perform a ~10 degree loft into the buddy’s basket.
-
Thx - will try that. Have also found that releasing level at low level and then jinking left and right slightly also works keeping the target lased. You overfly near the target, but at least you’re in the weeds.
-
Yes - the trick is to not cross the target before the bomb gets there…climbing/slowing help decrease your downrange travel, along with the jink. It’s an interesting exercise in timing…within the constraints of the weather. Something that might be worth practice on the KOTAR Range?
-
You can try a JDAM toss as well?
-
yeah, generally i don’t toss LGBs unless i’m forced to by the theater or weapon availability. it doesn’t work as well as you’d think unless you do buddy lasing, the toss range is mediocre and tossing one bomb at a time is very problematic with 2000 pounders due to the dissimilar drag/weight after one is gone.
there are niches for LGBs- generally that they hit moving targets. unfortunately for GBU 10/24 there is nothing in-sim that really requires a 2000 lb bomb that also is capable of movement. for general strike tasks, GPS just works far better and is much simpler and quicker to use.
-
You can try a JDAM toss as well?
Why toss a GPS guided weapon, just drop it through the clouds.
Why make life more difficult than it needs to be?
-
Un S/D-EADable SAM threat?
-
Why toss a GPS guided weapon, just drop it through the clouds.
Why make life more difficult than it needs to be?
They’re not standoff weapons so you need to get close-ish. Although I’ve no idea how ‘loftable’ they are compared to an LGB.
-
Why toss a GPS guided weapon, just drop it through the clouds.
Why make life more difficult than it needs to be?
there are these creatures called radar SAMs you might have heard of that sometimes prevent it
luckily no matter how good the russians get at radars they still can’t see through hills
-
Tossing a weapon - any weapon - is primarily done to increase it’s standoff distance at release. Of course there is a point of diminishing returns as this may go, but you use what you have.
-
I keep reading that dudes want to ingress low and fast. That might be the cool thing to do but unless you enjoy getting shot at (I don’t), stay high. You will drop a GBU-38 much farther out at 20-30K’ with a level delivery (or even dive) than you will coming in low and trying to loft it in. Stay high, stay fast.
-
*unless you’re up against high-tier adversaries in which case high & fast is instant and unavoidable death by sa10
sa10 can’t see through a hill
but it can see through about 60nm of dead air and silent-launch you to death with no warning
sure it’s not exactly safe but assuming the target you are attacking is actually worth attacking it can be worth the risk*
*who knows if this is true in the real world but as long as we’re not risking our lives here low-level ingress to defeat long range radar SAM area denial is a reasonable strategy
high & fast works against anything up to maybe SA-6, SA-6 and up means it’s no longer really an option if you don’t have a SEAD escort / don’t have SDBs / don’t have HARMs for your sead escort
low level ingress is by no means some magical cure-all really it puts you in far more danger 99% of the time because the risk of clearing a hill and eating both barrels of a shilka is ever present, but there are some threats and circumstances that mandate it, for a variety of reasons. much of the terrain near china and deep into north korea is perfect; too remote to be infested by enemy MANPADS, and hilly enough to present an annoyance to SA-10+
anyway yeah i don’t recommend toss unless you have a specific reason for doing it and certainly not really against anything you’ll find fighting the DPRK.
-
Clear case of poor mission planning. Weather is important to know. Also wrong weapon selection for the previous reason.
Sent from TapaTalk
-
@Cik:
*unless you’re up against high-tier adversaries in which case high & fast is instant and unavoidable death by sa10
sa10 can’t see through a hill
but it can see through about 60nm of dead air and silent-launch you to death with no warning
sure it’s not exactly safe but assuming the target you are attacking is actually worth attacking it can be worth the risk*
*who knows if this is true in the real world but as long as we’re not risking our lives here low-level ingress to defeat long range radar SAM area denial is a reasonable strategy
high & fast works against anything up to maybe SA-6, SA-6 and up means it’s no longer really an option if you don’t have a SEAD escort / don’t have SDBs / don’t have HARMs for your sead escort
low level ingress is by no means some magical cure-all really it puts you in far more danger 99% of the time because the risk of clearing a hill and eating both barrels of a shilka is ever present, but there are some threats and circumstances that mandate it, for a variety of reasons. much of the terrain near china and deep into north korea is perfect; too remote to be infested by enemy MANPADS, and hilly enough to present an annoyance to SA-10+
anyway yeah i don’t recommend toss unless you have a specific reason for doing it and certainly not really against anything you’ll find fighting the DPRK.
If there are hills this just means they can get higher as well, so it works both ways. They aren’t going to let the radars sit in a valley. But yes what you’re talking about is valid but without talking about specific ranges, they’re going to see you at a range well before you can be within range at that low of altitude. A GBU-38 loft from 200’ and you’re looking at about 3-6 NM in range. Additionally, how do you know where this -10 is at. They’re mobile (or somewhat mobile) so you probably don’t have Cat I or II coords on it. Meaning you need to stay up and get a TGP on it or do some other fancy stuff to find it.
Not to mention, you’re going to sit in a 10 MEZ 3-4 NM from it while you lase a LGB you lofted. You could loft a 38 in there and haul ass but you’re going to have a tough time doing an SPI SLEW with very little time with a TGP on.
All that while dodging AAA for 40-50 miles. There are ways to handle each threat. Just some things to think about.
-
It’s sometimes just fun to do things in BMS that you wouldn’t do in real life.
And the 10 doesn’t have to be the target. I’m building a mission for fun where you loft 38s into a hostile Aviano air base (so Cat 1 grids no problem) coming from the north going up a mountain side and slicing back. It works out perfectly (roughly 7/8 nm pull up point along the mountains).
It’s cool to do, even though it wouldn’t be my choice in real life.
-
Guys… Lofting is a VERY practical technique in RL and RL pilots are practicing it all the time.
-
Guys… Lofting is a VERY practical technique in RL and RL pilots are practicing it all the time.
Hmm that must be a non-American pilot thing. I’ve practiced it probably twice in the last year. It definitely has its place for sure.
Now a dive-glide, that’s a whole different story. We’ll practice those much more. That and simuls.