Chaff/flare loadout
-
Chaff canister can hold 30 cartridges, flare canister can hold 15 flares. Normally, advanced viper versions have 2-4 canister positions on the aft fuselage body, while dorsal spine equipped two-seaters carry from 4 to 6 extra canisters on the spine. The canisters themselves are fully switchable as per mission design, so you can have the proper amount of each countermeasure device. Moreover there are special versions of the MAU-12 weapon pylon as loaded in positions 3/7 which hosts 3 extra canisters per pylon (so total 6 extra), but this pylon is mainly available for MLU birds. Finally there is a special chaff canister which as per my knowledge atm is only available to IAF and Sufa model, which hosts 6 bigger chaff cartridges for improved defense performances.
The total amount of chaff/flares available to each bms aircraft model is configurable through its Flight Model .dat file, together with detailed positioning of each canister and type, as and ejection axis details. Although good approach, at the moment is a “static” feature “captive” to the FM. The most advanced approach (and IIRC already requested before in the so known wish-lists) is to have the ability to load the wanted amount of cartridges/canister types per flight/mission/plane, maybe in the weapons arming UI through a new selection option and/or WDP.
And to move feature another step forward (aka eye-candy vs DCS lol), since we happen to know the exact canister cartridge ignition / ejection, we can also model and skin the canister positions-colors through a new plates; solution thus to visually simulate externally the remaining amount of cartridges…
-
Chaff canister can hold 30 cartridges, flare canister can hold 15 flares. Normally, advanced viper versions have 2-4 canister positions on the aft fuselage body, while dorsal spine equipped two-seaters carry from 4 to 6 extra canisters on the spine. The canisters themselves are fully switchable as per mission design, so you can have the proper amount of each countermeasure device. Moreover there are special versions of the MAU-12 weapon pylon as loaded in positions 3/7 which hosts 3 extra canisters per pylon (so total 6 extra), but this pylon is mainly available for MLU birds. Finally there is a special chaff canister which as per my knowledge atm is only available to IAF and Sufa model, which hosts 6 bigger chaff cartridges for improved defense performances.
The total amount of chaff/flares available to each bms aircraft model is configurable through its Flight Model .dat file, together with detailed positioning of each canister and type, as and ejection axis details. Although good approach, at the moment is a “static” feature “captive” to the FM. The most advanced approach (and IIRC already requested before in the so known wish-lists) is to have the ability to load the wanted amount of cartridges/canister types per flight/mission/plane, maybe in the weapons arming UI through a new selection option and/or WDP.
And to move feature another step forward (aka eye-candy vs DCS lol), since we happen to know the exact canister cartridge ignition / ejection, we can also model and skin the canister positions-colors through a new plates; solution thus to visually simulate externally the remaining amount of cartridges…
Thanks, Raptor. So, I’m being “realistic” wanting 90/30 chaff/flare on a Block 50/52 Viper, at least in terms of capacity? I’ll fight the “skin fight” another day.
-
B50/52 has 4 canisters, so your available combination could be:
4x flare & 0x chaff canisters = 60 flares
3x flare & 1x chaff canisters = 45 flares & 30 chaff
2x flare & 2x chaff canisters = 30 flares & 60 chaff
1x flare & 3x chaff canisters = 15 flares & 90 chaff
0x flare & 4x chaff canisters = 120 chaff -
Are the ALE-50 pylons used on USAF F-16CJ weasels and if so do they not have extra chaff buckets like PIDS pylons on MLUs? I think this maybe the extra capability Redshift is eluding to.
Ah well I cannot say there as I never worked on a ALE-50 equipped bird. If that is the case then besides the CFT equipped birds then also the ALE-50 equipped ones. Still would be correct as BMS doesn’t simulate the ALE-50 system but the ALE-47.
-
Stubbies, at the moment I’m working on the Hornet C, which does have 120 expendables.
Ah well I cannot speak to the capabilities of the hornet at all.
However, I am under the impression the the Viper CJ does have a fourth bucket and 120 expendables, as well. Is that not correct?
Partially correct. Yes it does have four buckets but AFAIK 1x1 flares are not used in combat situations but are training only. 1x2 are the normal and that would take up two buckets to add up to 30 flares. Two buckets for the chaff at 1x1 for 60 chaff and 30 flares.
I’ve been looking around the 'net, haven’t found any specifics as yet. I did read in Viper Pilot that the CJ had more expendable capacity.
Well that isn’t a specific CJ model issue as it was moving from ALE-40 to ALE-47. Older block 25 models could be retrofitted with ALE-47 and have the same capacities.
-
Ah well I cannot say there as I never worked on a ALE-50 equipped bird. If that is the case then besides the CFT equipped birds then also the ALE-50 equipped ones. Still would be correct as BMS doesn’t simulate the ALE-50 system but the ALE-47.
After looking at pictures, there is definitely no chaff buckets on the outboard side on the ALE-50 pylons. Can’t tell about the inboard but I think I was just getting them confused with the PIDS.
The actual quote from Viper Pilot is “And four towed decoys and 120 chaff and flare bundles,” by which I think he means the standard ALE-47 amount with the maximum number to sound cool and the ALE-50 only adds decoys.
-
Thanks, Raptor. So, I’m being “realistic” wanting 90/30 chaff/flare on a Block 50/52 Viper, at least in terms of capacity? I’ll fight the “skin fight” another day.
This would only be for the F-16s modified with the squared up spine which I have not seen any models of in BMS. A standard Block 50/52 F-16, no spine, ALE-50, or CFT will hold up to four buckets worth of expendables in the exact config Raptor links in post 27.
-
After looking at pictures, there is definitely no chaff buckets on the outboard side on the ALE-50 pylons. Cant tell about the inboard but I think I was just getting them confused with the PIDs.
The actual quote from Viper Pilot is “And four towed decoys and 120 chaff and flare bundles.”
Yeah the towed decoy is the give a way as to a system greater than an ALE-47 as those do not exist in ALE-47 or below.
-
I don’t know which version of PIDS they are using, but some legacy viper squadrons in ANG are still using it.
Seem the number of its inventory is very few, since I couldn’t find it in most of photos. -
Yeah the towed decoy is the give a way as to a system greater than an ALE-47 as those do not exist in ALE-47 or below.
Huh? This is not true… Towed decoys, known as the ALE-50, definitely exist in ALE-47 systems.
-
Huh? This is not true… Towed decoys, known as the ALE-50, definitely exist in ALE-47 systems.
Not on any of the ALE-47 equipped birds I ever worked on. The first time I ever heard or knew about towed decoys was by reading Viper Pilot.
-
They are two different systems. Don’t confuse them.
-
Not on any of the ALE-47 equipped birds I ever worked on. The first time I ever heard or knew about towed decoys was by reading Viper Pilot.
And I’m telling you they work together.
-
Huh? This is not true… Towed decoys, known as the ALE-50, definitely exist in ALE-47 systems.
…I think you mean “with”…not “in”.
-
-
Try this instead:
Still a work in progress…
Thanks for the suggestion , Rybo, but we were not successful.
My latest, unfortunately unsuccessful, is
hasEWS 1
ecmStrength 0.000
nChaff 90
nFlare 30
FlareDispensers 1
FlareSeq 0
FlarePos1 1.45 -2.46 2.86
FlareVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount1 30
ChaffPos3 -2.50 -2.40 2.86
ChaffVec3 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount3 30
ChaffDispensers 3
ChaffSeq 0
ChaffPos1 1.45 2.46 2.86
ChaffVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount1 30
ChaffPos2 -2.50 2.40 2.86
ChaffVec2 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount2 30
ChaffPos3 -2.50 -2.40 2.86
ChaffVec3 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount3 30 -
I can’t see why that wouldn’t work TBH. I’ve never had any issues using custom CMS loads by editing the dat files. Are you sure you’re actually editing the correct dat file for the block that you’re selecting when you fly?
-
If what you are editing is Block50, you have to edit .dat file which is NOT at the Blk50 folder but have to edit .dat file exists above that directory.
-
If what you are editing is Block50, you have to edit .dat file which is NOT at the Blk50 folder but have to edit .dat file exists above that directory.
I’m working on the Hornet C, and I’m editing that.dat in acdat.Are you saying I need to edit somewhere else?
-
I can’t see why that wouldn’t work TBH. I’ve never had any issues using custom CMS loads by editing the dat files. Are you sure you’re actually editing the correct dat file for the block that you’re selecting when you fly?
Good Day, Rybo. As I wrote chihirobelmo, I’m editing the f18c.