Devs real question
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essentially i am asking to make this “hobby” your job.
We cannot afford that. Period. The BMS community as a whole is very small. Even if there were 100,000 people who would pay serious money for BMS “5.0”, that would be nothing compared to the actual development cost of a commercial “next level Falcon 4.0” simulator. Developing complex combat flight simulators is not a profitable enterprise. It ruined Spectrum Holobyte and then MicroProse. It’s not sustainable.
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You are totally wrong
BMS is unsurpassed
Especially considering the very high level of expertise of some of of us
Modesty comes with a high price too
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essentially i am asking to make this “hobby” your job.
No ****in way.
Organic growing is my hobby and job already.
The only reason I’m at BMS is because we have known each other for about 15 years and I consider my teammates to be my friends. It could be a car game or rpg it would be all the same for me.
Hell I hate wars machine with a passion, just a waste of money while children cry for food in this sick liberalist capitalist rotten world.
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only if you don’t do something you love.
I LOVE to fly. But since it is not on Sunday for flying around my house and since I have no choice, sometimes, I am bored to have to leave my wife one more time for several weeks to go to work … and even knowing that I am gonna fly over beautiful landscape, desert … etc … flying at very low level, … etc …
When it is your job … it is no more the same because with the fun, comes the constrains and obligations. Which is not the case here.
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You guys obviously have to stay within the rules laid down from on high at Billionsoft, and I respect that. But rejecting all open source software due to the efforts of SkyKnight is a lot like rejecting DCS based on the quality of a third party module, or deciding that all versions of BMS are terrible because you didnt like the graphics in 1.08us.
AFAIK, Billionsoft do not impose anything on that area (?) … and has no regard on who is accepted in the team. I mean that we could open the door to anybody anytime (and we do not hesitate to do so since frequently we have a new coming team member … I do not remember, maybe five or more ppl joined the team this last year.
Lets face it… do you think those guys would have had any different outcome by being closed source?
Not necessarily. But the fact they were open source didn’t made it either. And I can tell you for sure that if one day BMS become Open Source, in few weeks/months you will see several versions rising, incompatible among them … and completely bugged with effect to divide the community, break MP events and will quite rapidly kill Falcon4 once for all.
Cheers!
But this has already been discussed to death … so … I will better invest my time to Btest rather chitchatting for nothing prolific. -
For me payware and crowfounding never seemed a good way for Falcon. Always happened someting bad when money came into the picture. It leaded to AF… which stucked in many areas in SP4 level and is dead almost for a decade now.
To me the biggest issue how releasing the new version happens. In case you make a huge mod with year(s) of work the next big iteration of annules every effort what you put into your work. This is why I gave up modding. I made Korea '80s MOD and very quickly outdated and could not be ported easily to 4.33, only full manual redone is possible. I do not have time for this and is no tool which would help to solve this issue.
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AFAIK, Billionsoft do not impose anything on that area (?) … and has no regard on who is accepted in the team. I mean that we could open the door to anybody anytime (and we do not hesitate to do so since frequently we have a new coming team member … I do not remember, maybe five or more ppl joined the team this last year.
I was more commenting on the fact that as you are not owners of the Falcon 4 IP, you are limited to distributing your derivative work under a license from the owners (Billionsoft at present, unless I am misinformed). While any details about this license have not been forthcoming, its assumed that this license would prohibit making your source code public, as doing so could represent a risk to the income stream BMS provides to the Falcon 4 IP owners.
…if one day BMS become Open Source, in few weeks/months you will see several versions rising, incompatible among them … and completely bugged with effect to divide the community, break MP events and will quite rapidly kill Falcon4 once for all.
Well, I dont doubt that you would see offshoots develop. Much like all the offshoots of F4OSc though… not very numerous. The point of free open source software is to encourage improvement of the software itself, so improvements are targeted at being something you can include in the main project with a simple pull request. As far as things being completely bugged, its not like BMS has a bug free or 100% stable history to compare against. Broken MP can be easily resolved with client checks, similar to how the current iteration already performs anti-cheating checks.
Since 4.33 U1 though, I can no longer disagree with you about the ultimate result being the death of the Falcon community. The IP owners would only send a few C&D letters out before the development stopped being public, and you would end up with a very small underground community without much of the diversity we currently enjoy.
…rather chitchatting for nothing prolific.
Perhaps you meant productive? You are more prolific than I am, on these fora!
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To me the biggest issue how releasing the new version happens. In case you make a huge mod with year(s) of work the next big iteration of annules every effort what you put into your work.
This will always be the case and is unavoidable as long as we do move forward. Unless we accept to stop development of new features to focus on bug fix only, there is not way to do otherwise. This is also why that not having too many major frequent versions upgrade is a good thing (one every x years in average). It let the time de ppl to enjoy the sim without breaking stuff every month (This is what I had experienced with DCS … it is quite unbearable because when something is fixed, another thing is broken).
So yes … next version will invalidate existing theaters, UI, missions, campaign (but Mission Commander might help in conversion in some ways ;)), … etc … It will also definitively break TacEdit and 4FBrowse. But fortunately, for good reasons, and maybe also to make things easier for the future.
What you said Monli is universal and also true for BMS team member themselves. Theater has to be redone … Campaign also, Training missions and manuals also … Documentations to be updated … etc … so no, it is not only an endless work for 3dr party … it is the case for everyone. Even for player who will have to re-learn a lot of things that has been changed/updated and sometime will have to radically change their habits.
And with the 4.34, it wont be the last time it will happens. Which is fortunate.
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@Red:
Modesty comes with a high price too
Considering my poor skills on code I don’t consider myself as high level of expertise , but considering what are doing some of our mates there , i do mean what I wrote
And there is nothing wrong to be proud of beeing unsurpassed when this is true
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Considering my poor skills on code I don’t consider myself as high level of expertise ,
You are funny.
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We cannot afford that. Period. The BMS community as a whole is very small. Even if there were 100,000 people who would pay serious money for BMS “5.0”, that would be nothing compared to the actual development cost of a commercial “next level Falcon 4.0” simulator. Developing complex combat flight simulators is not a profitable enterprise. It ruined Spectrum Holobyte and then MicroProse. It’s not sustainable.
who says that it would be “just” the bms community, star citizen made $150,000,000 from crowd funding alone. I’d wager that even a fraction of that would be enough to make multiple high-fidelity planes.
You are totally wrong
First facts : BMS is unsurpassed in many domains , even by so called “pro companies” like DCS
Second fact: if you want BMS team to make BMS for a living , no way you would have enough money to pay the entire BMS crew . Especially considering the very high level of expertise of some of of us
In BMS :" on code pas avec le cul" and that makes a difference
With the various crowd funding tools available, money can be found if the product has a fan-base, a couple posts in the right place on reddit. coupled with the fact that flight sims in general have some heavy whales (big spenders), the idea of a “falcon 5” will have them throwing money at you.
give the F16 free, then charge for other planes.
if your curious just throw a post up on the flightsims reddit and see the flood of responses you will get begging you.
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who says that it would be “just” the bms community, star citizen made $150,000,000 from crowd funding alone. I’d wager that even a fraction of that would be enough to make multiple high-fidelity planes.
With the various crowd funding tools available, money can be found if the product has a fan-base, a couple posts in the right place on reddit. coupled with the fact that flight sims in general have some heavy whales (big spenders), the idea of a “falcon 5” will have them throwing money at you.
give the F16 free, then charge for other planes.
if your curious just throw a post up on the flightsims reddit and see the flood of responses you will get begging you.
You simply do not get it…
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I’d wager that even a fraction of that would be enough to make multiple high-fidelity planes
3 pages and you still don’t get it…
You really have to stop believing that money is the ticket to happiness and solutions.
Personally, if I was a dev here and the rest team decided to go to a payware model, I’d resigned the same day. It’s not something minimalistic or against money, or “easy money”, its experience to either rl life or this exact title here coming from the last couple decades.
One should not expect to gain experience only from his mistakes, he should look all around and evaluate others mistakes to survive.
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I think that making this bms into a new kind of flightsim say Falcon 5, will destroy this falcon community that we have now. I also believe that it will atrackt the wrong kind of players (buyers) who will go play multyplyer just to ruin falcon lovers game experience. you can see it in alot of game’s happening. I think that this will posibly is A real scenario that can happen to us. If that happens, no one will have fun anymore, or feel as good as they do now in this fine community.
Greets Steve
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Ok, I’ve spent the last few weeks flying DCS in VR and ended up getting about $400 in modules. As of today I’ve gotten kinda bored with it, which is normal for me with LOMAC and DCS. After flying Falcon for 18 years I’m used to the sounds of a war going on around me which is missing in single player DCS.
So last night I fire BMS up and start a campaign. This involves loading TARGET, Track IR, MFDE (because YAME is broke) and HELIOS. I have a serious rig and can run BMS at maxed settings and get 90FPS and it’s gorgeous on a 50"UHDTV. I’m also running a 27" ACER touch panel for Helios.
After doing the dance I jump into the campaign and am sitting in the jet on the runway ready for takeoff. One of my favorite things about the F16 in Falcon and BMS is Aeyes cockpit. I bought all of them during the SP3 days and still think they’re perfect today. But. After using the Rift in the Mirage and AV8B the last few weeks the thrill is gone for me in 2D.
Period. No matter how much better of a sim I think Falcon is, flying in 2D is a thing of the past for me. Now, I’m sure I will be flamed by the usual bunch and that’s cool. Falcon has been a passion for me for years and really it still is but I can’t fly like this anymore. With VR you’re in the damn jet. You’re able to do things like overhead breaks, formations and refueling with an ease that’s embarrassing. Plus the immersion of rolling over, looking out the canopy and losing your stomach, or having to grab your seat to get the leverage to look all the way behind you to get tally in a dogfight…. Yeah, I’m finished with 2D, I even regret buying the Rift to a degree.
The reason I’m posting my 2D eulogy in this thread is I’m not the only one that’s been shoveling cash at DCS Because of VR and I think the interest in BMS my be about to take a hit. So, I don’t give two shits if BMS wants to make money or not on the sim. All I care about is that Falcon gets VR support. If it does, it will still be here 20 years later. If it doesn’t, 5 years from now it will be a fond memory. So, with that in mind I will be lobbying the new owner of the IP in Hong Kong to look into doing something like Lead Pursuit did with the MP code but for VR. Lol, call it Falcon VR if you like. As long as it gets made it’s all good because otherwise Falcon is as good as dead. -
It is just the beginning of VR.
ATM, VR resolution is not enough anyway to enjoy BMS’s F-16 avionics without sticking your nose on the MFDs. So, while I am sure that VR will arrive one day in BMS, at present time, the main limitation remain hardware.
If it doesn’t, 5 years from now it will be a fond memory.
I believe that in 5 years from now, VR will be a reality in BMS. But if it doesn’t … I also believe that it won’t be dead anyway. Maybe just few less users.
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First the rights are owned by someone else.
Second u must start something from scratch, total zero.
Third some will remain and not jump to the new train.
Forth who will manage the management and leadership.
Fifth what would be the ROE when investors come in. They r not for the dream but for the money.
Sixth X the amount of money if it succeed for lawyers when the rights owner will come hard on you.
Seventh I’m sure there are some terms in current agreement between current rights owner and BMS team.
They are known by their IDs and most greatly there will be need to be raised and broken ethical barriers which I don’t believe BMS team has any thoughts to brake ever.When money comes in and without proper ethics and vision things get fubared. Not dead but fubared compared to what we believe now.
Community - clients wise Ppl will go the same as now. I don’t think many will change. Same hates same love same argues same ideas same complains. The only difference will be that clients can demand when members ask.Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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Eight: With investors comes the clients targeted. The more numerous they are, the best it is for investors. It means that dev won’t have anymore control on what they want to do and devs will be commanded to bring the customers what they want … and many of the “clients” do not necessary want what devs want.
Nope … BMS team members will keep their independence towards the “audience”. “Clients” won’t become clients and will remains “users”. They take what BMS brings … or go on their way.
No money involved = Freedom.
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Personally, I’m happy with things the way they are…if I had any input at all in allocating resources it would be to pay less attention to making other aircraft flyable and offer some way to better facilitate third party ability to do that. That way the devs could concentrate resources on making and keeping the core of BMS what it is - the best F-16 combat sim on the planet.