[New] F16I Skin Project
-
Well… It started by telling you some of our very secrets of how to make a full “flat” terrain with 60,000,000 million diffrent square meters, because you thought its only possible to use 4096 tiles… well we use today more than 6 millions square meters compare to only about 40,000 possible in falcon and not all of them are in use… you have a repeated terrain of only 250 diffrent files if we talk about Israeli Theater… 256 compared to 6 millions - well… you said it’s impossible. You gotta think out of the box . Now You know a little about how we made it possible more than 4096 tiles… we dont use tiles. we use diffrent ways… but now you say - well… this “Diffrent Way” is only possible for Flat Terrain… well - it’s very complex to build a 6 million diffrent meters… but - once you know how to do that… and its indeed FLAT… you can try to take to a 3d …
but again - there’s so much diffrent details and numbers going all over - we did like 3 years of testing befor it became possible … I remember when I had to find away to use more than 4096 tiles… I said one day : “What If I take 0 tiles and just build square after square of a full terrain of a whole country?” and you can’t do it without 3 years of testing… we now got all the skills needed to make it possible. it’s not that easy as it sounds. 3 years made it possible for the Flat Terrain…
but then we said - ok … wow it looks good, but no mountains… so I had to work another 1 full year of testing to make it possible for the mountains - here are some of the pictures from long long ago - with the 3d terrain tests of a whole country with 60 million diffrent square meters (it’s even more than FSX and DCS together for the Israeli State)I feel free to talk about it now - I know it’s very complex to do it… infact it’s almost impossible… but we have now the knowledge of how to make it work good - for 3d terrain with 4k runways - like never seen befor - our runways are more accurate and looking better than the best FSX runways and airbases of Civil Airports… it takes time - but you can make it happen… we don’t always use Falcon 4 bms… we tried some of the ideas on top of other engines and simulators including the one we have developed from zero … with our own source code - which has the best graphics out of all… and it’s not over yet… we still continue to develop new things … it’s a never ending process - but we are way ahead of the Falcon BMS 4.34 and getting closer (I think even better) than FSX or P3D…
https://i.ibb.co/55fGHHt/Barak10-2018-04-12-17-54-31-96.png
https://i.ibb.co/x3D3bJb/Barak10-2018-04-12-17-54-46-00.png
https://i.ibb.co/zP1vpDZ/Barak10-2018-04-12-17-54-50-78.png
https://i.ibb.co/9TGLvbj/Barak10-2018-04-12-17-55-16-16.png
https://i.ibb.co/T49r1s2/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-00-52-04.png
https://i.ibb.co/y4z3vs7/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-00-54-61.png
https://i.ibb.co/5Fwv8kv/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-00-59-45.png
https://i.ibb.co/pZzm4yr/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-01-18-80.png
https://i.ibb.co/PMkXWcF/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-01-24-49.png
https://i.ibb.co/w46Rv74/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-17-45-78.png
https://i.ibb.co/S0MNXTX/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-17-47-29.png
https://i.ibb.co/7rLMV1b/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-18-19-41.png
https://i.ibb.co/TRQ3C1w/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-19-38-14.png
https://i.ibb.co/NVMV2JS/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-19-40-68.png
https://i.ibb.co/yYHYSGc/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-20-16-98.pngYarin, let me tell you what:
1. You ALWAYS have the habit to take this position of like showing you know better than everyone and you make breakthrough at this topic or the other… But you never show anything complete, so it is hard to judge.
2. I’ll tell what is real terrain - Real terrain is first made of geometry, showing mountains in the size of Falcon mesh and talk about it as 3D of something “new and so much advanced”, that is a joke. Real modern terrain engine will show very high resolution. What you show is VERY flat, sorry.
3. You speak of the 4096 tiles as it is some kind of thing you can hack, you speak of BMS terrain as you found a way to make things “smarter”, again. But you don’t, you are possibly showing fake tiles of very small area of a theater where you used the 4096 on and put nothing everywhere far from the camera.
4. Your terrain is a fake cause you have no objects anywhere on it, no objects, no structures, no trees, all I see is flat tile… for all I know it could be some kind of a huge 3D model which you spreaded 100s of textures on.
5. I know how GPU work, so your tries to sell me some crap like “0 tiles” or infinite number of pixels, that is just a stack of bullshit. If you render a texture, it MUST be in GPU memory, there is no such thing as “0 textures” or any crap you try to sell here.
6. Be humble, it’s the only way to make real stuff that counts.
You want to be a real developer? Start by releasing your skin to the public, that will be a start.
Good luck.
-
Well… It started by telling you some of our very secrets of how to make a full “flat” terrain with 60,000,000 million diffrent square meters, because you thought its only possible to use 4096 tiles… well we use today more than 6 millions square meters compare to only about 40,000 possible in falcon and not all of them are in use… you have a repeated terrain of only 250 diffrent files if we talk about Israeli Theater… 256 compared to 6 millions - well… you said it’s impossible. You gotta think out of the box . Now You know a little about how we made it possible more than 4096 tiles… we dont use tiles. we use diffrent ways… but now you say - well… this “Diffrent Way” is only possible for Flat Terrain… well - it’s very complex to build a 6 million diffrent meters… but - once you know how to do that… and its indeed FLAT… you can try to take to a 3d …
but again - there’s so much diffrent details and numbers going all over - we did like 3 years of testing befor it became possible … I remember when I had to find away to use more than 4096 tiles… I said one day : “What If I take 0 tiles and just build square after square of a full terrain of a whole country?” and you can’t do it without 3 years of testing… we now got all the skills needed to make it possible. it’s not that easy as it sounds. 3 years made it possible for the Flat Terrain…
but then we said - ok … wow it looks good, but no mountains… so I had to work another 1 full year of testing to make it possible for the mountains - here are some of the pictures from long long ago - with the 3d terrain tests of a whole country with 60 million diffrent square meters (it’s even more than FSX and DCS together for the Israeli State)I feel free to talk about it now - I know it’s very complex to do it… infact it’s almost impossible… but we have now the knowledge of how to make it work good - for 3d terrain with 4k runways - like never seen befor - our runways are more accurate and looking better than the best FSX runways and airbases of Civil Airports… it takes time - but you can make it happen… we don’t always use Falcon 4 bms… we tried some of the ideas on top of other engines and simulators including the one we have developed from zero … with our own source code - which has the best graphics out of all… and it’s not over yet… we still continue to develop new things … it’s a never ending process - but we are way ahead of the Falcon BMS 4.34 and getting closer (I think even better) than FSX or P3D…
https://i.ibb.co/55fGHHt/Barak10-2018-04-12-17-54-31-96.png
https://i.ibb.co/x3D3bJb/Barak10-2018-04-12-17-54-46-00.png
https://i.ibb.co/zP1vpDZ/Barak10-2018-04-12-17-54-50-78.png
https://i.ibb.co/9TGLvbj/Barak10-2018-04-12-17-55-16-16.png
https://i.ibb.co/T49r1s2/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-00-52-04.png
https://i.ibb.co/y4z3vs7/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-00-54-61.png
https://i.ibb.co/5Fwv8kv/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-00-59-45.png
https://i.ibb.co/pZzm4yr/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-01-18-80.png
https://i.ibb.co/PMkXWcF/Barak10-2018-04-12-18-01-24-49.png
https://i.ibb.co/w46Rv74/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-17-45-78.png
https://i.ibb.co/S0MNXTX/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-17-47-29.png
https://i.ibb.co/7rLMV1b/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-18-19-41.png
https://i.ibb.co/TRQ3C1w/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-19-38-14.png
https://i.ibb.co/NVMV2JS/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-19-40-68.png
https://i.ibb.co/yYHYSGc/Barak10-2018-04-12-21-20-16-98.pngBut fake terrain does not interact with in-game code. For example A-G Radar/TFR can’t see fake-terrain. And vehicles do not run on fake terrain surface.
-
Eghi this is not 4k textures but 4k video captured. also at the start of vid on the left side the markings are pixelated and the cement blocks borders are definitely not 4k.
-
This post is deleted! -
Eghi this is not 4k textures but 4k video captured. also at the start of vid on the left side the markings are pixelated and the cement blocks borders are definitely not 4k.
Yes I know, I just wanted to compare.
-
Ok
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T818A using Tapatalk
-
This post is deleted! -
-
Thanks for your kind words but i aint. Please dont post such things.
Im not used to it and it makes me very uncomfortable.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T818A using Tapatalk
-
Yarin, you clearly underestimate the people that respond to the thread.
You have people that actually know the “under the hood” stuff more intimately then any other person on the planet.
So “selling” 3d terrain objective “method” to them is like trying to sell passion fruit candy to a baby.
He will take it at first but then he taste it and want to kill you.We are all here to learn from each other, and being so cryptic all the time was good and well 10 years ago.
You are all grown up now, so stop the BS and step up to your words.
You have worked on a nice looking skin, let people use it.
You think you invented new terrain editing method that is far superior? Send one tile to someone you trust and let him have a look. You trust Arty, send it to him. Peer review it’s called.Stop waisting all of our time with your “floor is crucked, however I am a misunderstood genius and smarter then anyone” BS attitude you carry for the last 15 years. It’s not cute anymore, it’s pathetic.
-
Wolfox321 there is something that kinda triggered me here…
U said whole country in 3d.
ok I hear u but Falcon wise errr sounds like a melting process.
like what? 100x100km? larger? smaller?Can you please give more details 3d and texture wise?
Also u where on a NASA super trooper computer.I mean u should have split each area and also use at least 3 lods for each also lower textures for each lod?
mission load time was what? half an hour on ssd and 1 to 2 hours on HDD?
your photos look nice but far and very small resolution. was that the resolution in 3d or you resized them?
yeap Demer made Guam ok but it’s an island like 27x55km which resulted for me in a 100+gb of textures in high res sat imagery iirc, So I can’t imagine what would be your textures for a whole country and what kind of detail r we talking here like how many pixels per m?
Unity?
Cityengine?
Google?
Ms maps?
ESRI?Also from Heightmap in 3ds max what was the mess matrix detail factor… like the squares used in your plane on which u applied the heightmap to create the 3d model. also for each area u should play with the values… so that the heightmap be close to real when u import it to Falcon.
-
I don’t understand this thread anymore …. It started with skins … And now …
-
Well… It started by telling you some of our very secrets of how to make a full “flat” terrain with 60,000,000 million diffrent square meters, because you thought its only possible to use 4096 tiles…
Neat!
Questions:
1 - Where will you share pictures & videos of ground battle, ground objectives, cities, airbase operations … etc … (full trailer)
2 - When will you share it with community?
In 3 - 4 weeks right?
-
Wolfox release a video already come on,are you a wolf or a fox?lol
-
This post is deleted! -
The whole 3d country we did - was 300NM X 150NM = Talking about 45,000 Diffrent Square Miles.
In KM - it’s 550KM X 270KM = 148,500 diffrent square KMs = 148,500,000 Million diffrent square meters. Those numbers even sound huge to me… but that’s what we did. Sometimes I can’t belive the numbers myself - but I did the caculation right now - it’s ALOT…550KM x 270KM is ~1/7 of a full Falcon theater.
In order to get such high numbers you need to solve at least 5 MAJOR PROBLEMS and those are :
- The limitation of the Simulator it self for only 4096 tiles. that can produce at maximum area of 100km X 40km = 4,096,000 diffrent square meters - and that’s not that bad for falcon. the point is - that falcon can use 4096 diffrent tiles - but I don’t see any theater that use all of the diffrent tiles it can use… because you can get 4 diffrent million square meters with the 4096 limit. which is also alot. but I know that theaters use only about 256 diffrent files out of the 4096 useable - so 250/4096 means you can still do alot to go to 4069 diffrent tiles… a regular theater that uses only 250 diffrent files - is actualy using only 250,000 diffrent square meters - and that’s ok… but when u take 300nm X 300nm area which is 90,000,000 diffrent square meters - and u apply only 250,000 out of 90,000,000 - you get the same area repeated it self by 360 times (250,000 x 360 = 90,000,000) so thats one issue. how to get use of all the 4096 files that are possible - but not only that - need to go beyond 4096 files if you want to get a real-terrain like google earth.
https://i.ibb.co/gPHnv3S/Wolf.jpg
But you didn’t “solved” the limitation of 4096 tiles, you simply hacked the terrain as a big 3D model with few vertices (relatively) and possibly you assembled a couple of those to make it look like a terrain. However, if you succeeded, you still have problems with bounding boxes and collisions.
And BTW, what 250 tiles are you talking about? KTO and ITO currently using more than 3K tiles each, out the available 4096. POH is IIRC using all 4096 slots.
BTW2 - The 4096 isn’t some hard limit that cannot be reached, it’s a limit that was set from Falcon history, it wouldn’t be that hard to extend if we wanted, but we don’t want because more tiles will eventually mean less and less performance. Although you try to render it as “0 tiles” or some other crap like that, if it’s textures then GPU need it in memory for rendering, and if you have too many tiles, in existing terrain it means more draw calls and eventually less performance.
Let’s say that I have this huge terrain… very big… the biggest one you’ve ever seen. (Donalnd trump style “IT’S HUGE!”)… well… how do u keep FPS high? well…
you only need the area that you’re flying over … right? I mean… If I fly in canada… I don’t care about new-york… right? I Mean… Where ever you fly - that’s the area you need. so it should not be that big… it can even be small enough to get you through with 120 fps and as you fly from one area to another - other areas that you flew 10 minutes ago - are disappearing… so you can fly a 999,999,999,999 nm X 999,999,999,999 nm area - but the video card and the CPU will only be care about the 80nm that are around you… and as you move on - those 80nm always stay 80nm that around you… it’s the same princple as the BUBBLE in Falcon 4 bms… that’s how u get high fps - with no matter how large or big or huge or “TRUMP HUGE!” it gets… You don’t fly over new york? well - You Don’t Need New-York… and that’s easy to say - hard to pull off…
https://i.ibb.co/mDV4SHg/2019-07-13-034136.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1dPKxx0/2019-07-18-060446.jpgListen genius… what you think that you discovered here is called in the professional language “clipping” or “culling”. Take a small guess but Falcon does that all the time, 3D models that aren’t in scene aren’t sent to rendering even if they are 10 feet away, because the CPU will cull them before sending them to GPU to render (Read about frustum culling to get the idea).
Also, you think Falcon terrain is rendering all terrain as once?? It’s loading in 16x16 KM segments, hold in memory only the visible segments around you and swap back and forth as camera move.
Bottom line - You didn’t invented anything new here. Every real 3D engine in the world has some kind of culling, otherwise performance will be crap.
3rd Major Problem - will be alot more difficult than the other 2… You got the terrain… huge… you got the 4k with 120 fps … but it’s a flat terrain… so you go to a 3d terrain… now you get into the world of the polys, you get involved with diffrent issues of how to make a real 3d terrain - with still the same textures… because I can build a very beautiful area of mountains - with grass and tress and it’ll look awesome. but its not real photo-terrain… I need to get my already huge flat terrain - into a 3d… I can’t build something new… it won’t be real… it will be something nice but forget about the photoreal terrain… so it’s a whole diffrent major problem… not only to build something that looks good… but it must be the Google Earth that goes 3d. and now boys - that’s a huge problem…
https://i.ibb.co/7bCXYnb/2019-07-20-185847.jpgI like it that you speak of FPS problems like they are some “tiny thing you can squash”
FPS problems in real engine can be real problems, the fact that you initially used some shitty Video card and now you have GTX-whatever and you can load into it 8GB of textures (Including RAM, as GPU will start to fill RAM once its on-board memory is taken), that doesn’t make it special.4th major problem in the process will be to get all the files in a better resolution… once you got through the 3 big problems - you’ll be ok… =]
https://i.ibb.co/9ZQFWJ5/2019-07-08-141006-1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3WdNV89/2019-07-13-034012.jpgPsssst… resolution problem? This is something that all most advanced terrain engines in the world try to solve, “The” resolution problems
I like (again) how you wave these problem as if it is something easy to solve. Resolution is a serious problem and engines fighting all the time and inventing very sophisticated and complicated rendering and data management algorithms in order to tackle the resolution problem.
What are you trying to sell here, then?
5th major problem - is to solve the lights, and shadows, the night time, the buildings, the objects - all of these gotta work fine if you ever wanna strike an S.A.8 that fires at you … or other wise it’s a useless simulator …
that’s the basics I think … =]
Your tries to sound smart(er) all the time are pathetic.
Show me a working terrain with objects over it, with vehicles running on it… but you can’t, because you didn’t built a terrain, you hacked a loophole in the sim which we can squash in 2 seconds by e.g limiting the size of a 3D model :mrgreen:
What I can give you credit for is that the textures do look nice, high resolution, that is nice. But it’s not a terrain, sorry.
- The limitation of the Simulator it self for only 4096 tiles. that can produce at maximum area of 100km X 40km = 4,096,000 diffrent square meters - and that’s not that bad for falcon. the point is - that falcon can use 4096 diffrent tiles - but I don’t see any theater that use all of the diffrent tiles it can use… because you can get 4 diffrent million square meters with the 4096 limit. which is also alot. but I know that theaters use only about 256 diffrent files out of the 4096 useable - so 250/4096 means you can still do alot to go to 4069 diffrent tiles… a regular theater that uses only 250 diffrent files - is actualy using only 250,000 diffrent square meters - and that’s ok… but when u take 300nm X 300nm area which is 90,000,000 diffrent square meters - and u apply only 250,000 out of 90,000,000 - you get the same area repeated it self by 360 times (250,000 x 360 = 90,000,000) so thats one issue. how to get use of all the 4096 files that are possible - but not only that - need to go beyond 4096 files if you want to get a real-terrain like google earth.
-
Like many here I am an old guy and been in the Falcon community for 20+ years. And have seen the generations change over time. So I just want to be clear here. So the common practice now in the Falcon community is to start trashing someone’s work instead of complimenting?? I’m just curious cause it seems to be the childish trend that is on this site lately. I get it, perhaps he is pissing people off because of his attitude or how he communicates? **** sake guys, move on and don’t communicate with him. If he produces something awesome, great. If he doesn’t who cares? It’s no loss to anyone.
-
Like many here I am an old guy and been in the Falcon community for 20+ years. And have seen the generations change over time. So I just want to be clear here. So the common practice now in the Falcon community is to start trashing someone’s work instead of complimenting?? I’m just curious cause it seems to be the childish trend that is on this site lately. I get it, perhaps he is pissing people off because of his attitude or how he communicates? **** sake guys, move on and don’t communicate with him. If he produces something awesome, great. If he doesn’t who cares? It’s no loss to anyone.
+1
Even if his terrain is ‘fake’ empty shell, even if he broke the limits or hacked something, even if his terrain has serious performance problem, but his PC is from NASA… I am OK with that. His tries does not break my BMS installation in any degree. And if one day he would share his work I probably would try it - with all caveats.
From the screens it looks impressive. From the clips also, but I’d like to see some really low flying.
-
I-Hawk you don’t need to reduce the 3d object size Lod Editor does it already.
If you try to insert a super huge well not huge but extreme tris model it crashes.
So if he could import it as one object it would be in a res less than Falcon terrain to keep the tris down.
Now if he wanted more detail on the height map that pumps up the tris then he would had to cut the 3d object in to smaller pieces making it’s stitching in Falcon if not impossible bit hard unless he did it like not centering the sub object to the 3dsmax scene and export from one file piece by piece, then it would stitch perfectly.Now that huge 3d object if it was one only object then the textures would load all at once I can’t see how this is flyable.
I’ve done tests with enormous tris models (like 80.000tris iirc and repeated 10-20 times in view) and low textures and with a GTX 580 with 3GB vram and 8gb ram and the system was barely flyable and those where not that huge as a country.So something doesn’t really connects the puzzle. either your cpu was 6Ghz+ and u had 64gb ram or more or you thought you disabled the GTX but falcon was still using it.
-
So “selling” 3d terrain objective “method” to them is like trying to sell passion fruit candy to a baby.
He will take it at first but then he taste it and want to kill you.I’m wiping tears of laughter from my eyes as I type this… thanks, I needed that. Great visual picture I’ve never tried passion fruit, only saw them on the trees on Crete in late Summer. Are they really that bad?
All the best, Uwe