SA-10 Killing me with no Missile Warning
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Interesting attempts to save the day.
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Interesting attempts to save the day.
LOL
I really pissed you off, didn’t I. Sorry for that…not my intention…Just teasing. If you knew me you certainly would know I know what I am talking about wild weaseling etc. Have nice day. -
I also remember other behaviors of this beast, although I’m not sure if this was modeled differently in older versions of BMS.
The time when China enters the war I try to take out Shenyang or Liuhe airbases sneaking in along the western part of the map to have much water on my route.
On rare occasions I saw a 10 on my RWR very short, then nothing for minutes. Suddenly my RWR went off with a missile warning and an instant later BAMMM!
I also was hit without any warning or 10 on RWR when flying higher. I asked myself if this was a lucky artillery hit, seeing in the debriefing it was an SA-10.Is it in BMS 4.34 always the case you see the 10 and have to watch if it is in outer or inner ring?
SA-10 and -20 are S-300P. I always wonder what S-400 (SA-21) are capable of
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SA-21 was initially S-300PM-3 before it was renamed S-400 (hype bonus). PM-1/2 are SA-20, PS and PT are SA-10.
SA-20 is midway between SA-21 & SA-10. Main improvements of SA-21 are electronics and fire-control wise (harder-faster-better-stronger, basically) and the employment of an increased variety of missile types to be able to engage threats the most efficiently possible way within all the battery’s area of responsibility.
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LOL
I really pissed you off, didn’t I. Sorry for that…not my intention…Just teasing. If you knew me you certainly would know I know what I am talking about wild weaseling etc. Have nice day.Not at all. I think you are pissed off because I don’t know who you are ;).
Wild weaseling is a real life concept, wild weaseling an SA-10 with dumb bombs is a BMS concept. Which I probably enjoy since it’s one the most recurring topics on my YT channel. Not something I’d particularly recommend to someone who just realize what an SA-10 is, though.
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You can read more deeply if you wish to know the S-300/400 family.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?32545-Guide-into-evolution-and-terms-of-air-defense-and-military-aviation -
You can read more deeply if you wish to know the S-300/400 family.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?32545-Guide-into-evolution-and-terms-of-air-defense-and-military-aviationVery impressive! I already knew most of the facts and wondered how it would be to go against them in BMS. DCS doesn’t have them, too. I would think, flying below tree level will not suffice
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Sa10 at the moment are just baby monsters
But since then they had a 3 to 4 weeks time to grow mad teenagers
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ECM blinking is not your “ECM turn on and hope for the best”…as you probably know it.
Something bugs me though
Since SA-10 have HOJ
Since you’ll be dead if you turn your own jammer on in BMS
Since A prowler, EF-111 or Growler closeby will protect you and allow you to overfly the Sa-10 battery without ANY threat in BMS
How come that Sa-10 can’t HOJ on the prowler, growler or EF-111 then ? -
I’ve always thought the answer was beyond BMS and classified. If it’s not, I’m interested.
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@Red:
Something bugs me though
Since SA-10 have HOJ
Since you’ll be dead if you turn your own jammer on in BMS
Since A prowler, EF-111 or Growler closeby will protect you and allow you to overfly the Sa-10 battery without ANY threat in BMS
How come that Sa-10 can’t HOJ on the prowler, growler or EF-111 then ?because growler and EF111 have supernatural powers
and because if we code real SA10 capabilities , it’s better to
- remove them form all theaters
- keep them but stay on the ground watching scenery
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As I understand, highly dedicated JAM aircraft with ALQ-99 or next gen jammer with added AESA have much more capabilities for this than ALQ-131, i.e. they are directional. There could be classified methods how they spoof a HOJ missile. But most probable are the known decoys or standoff jamming.
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And we haven’t started talking about Sa-20 …
How do they do it in real life then?I disagree actually, the way to fight them is to task saturate them. No reason to remove them if they are modelled accurately.
We just need to adapt our tactics and make the IA more efficient doing what it takes so we are able to oversaturate themEven without these changes, in 4.34 we have standoff weapon quite able to destroy the Sa-10, realistic behaviour or not
-if you know their position (coordinates) SDB
-if you don’t know their coordinates: Delilah or MITLAre these real tactics? Probably not (except for the delilah)
Are these valid tactic? Yes they are.
Pilots will always find new ways to do their mission according to the tools they have. We BMS pilots do the same. In that aspect they are valid and working tactics.
There is no need to think that removing them would be the only solution… we can cope and we can adapt and we’re always smarter than AI driven by code -
That’s a general philosophy I totally agree with. We do with what we have, this is the essence of the confrontation. Forcing totally real tactics to a not totally real environment can be justified by the pleasure of following real procedures, a will to train for real situations, but not a tactical choice. And if tactical considerations is what interests you the most, you will move from real grounds to what the simulated environment allows and forbids.
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I’ve not tested the AGM-158 in 4.34. Would it work too if you know the coordinates ?
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@Red:
Something bugs me though
Since SA-10 have HOJ
Since you’ll be dead if you turn your own jammer on in BMS
Since A prowler, EF-111 or Growler closeby will protect you and allow you to overfly the Sa-10 battery without ANY threat in BMS
How come that Sa-10 can’t HOJ on the prowler, growler or EF-111 then ?HOJ is, if I’m not mistaken, mostly used against noise jamming. Electronic attack supporting aircraft (as well as fighters’ self protection jammers) don’t necessarily only employ noise jamming, which kind of is level 0 of jamming. But in public flight sims, we won’t find much else than noise jamming…
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@Red:
Something bugs me though
Since SA-10 have HOJ
Since you’ll be dead if you turn your own jammer on in BMS
Since A prowler, EF-111 or Growler closeby will protect you and allow you to overfly the Sa-10 battery without ANY threat in BMS
How come that Sa-10 can’t HOJ on the prowler, growler or EF-111 then ?Maybe, maybe and …maybe - HOJ works if it can burn through the jamming. IF the a.c. that is jamming is actually doing it’s job (jamming) then the radar won’t get a lock. Now that’s a risk I wouldn’t like to take in a jamming plane of course!!!
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@Red:
And we haven’t started talking about Sa-20 …
How do they do it in real life then?I disagree actually, the way to fight them is to task saturate them. No reason to remove them if they are modelled accurately.
We just need to adapt our tactics and make the IA more efficient doing what it takes so we are able to oversaturate themEven without these changes, in 4.34 we have standoff weapon quite able to destroy the Sa-10, realistic behaviour or not
-if you know their position (coordinates) SDB
-if you don’t know their coordinates: Delilah or MITLAre these real tactics? Probably not (except for the delilah)
Are these valid tactic? Yes they are.
Pilots will always find new ways to do their mission according to the tools they have. We BMS pilots do the same. In that aspect they are valid and working tactics.
There is no need to think that removing them would be the only solution… we can cope and we can adapt and we’re always smarter than AI driven by codeHuman pilots can adapt, but the ATO and MI controlled flights cannot. The current system is simply way to “unskilled” for this goal. As long as the S-300 are supported the Big Bird and Clam Shell they can down incoming larger CMs…
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Human pilots can adapt, but the ATO and MI controlled flights cannot. The current system is simply way to “unskilled” for this goal. As long as the S-300 are supported the Big Bird and Clam Shell they can down incoming larger CMs…
Than you god !! Someone understanding the whole picture