Please choose your main display system when flying BMS
-
Ticked the wide screen 3440 x 1440 for the Predator X34, but have recently upgraded to 3880 x 1600 Predator X38.
-
Pretty hardcore VR guy here. Honestly got back into flight simming more a little before Covid and then despite lots of years with BMS and Falcon since 3.0, DCS was my primary sim because of VR support. I came back to BMS just because of the general performance and realism issues. When I did that I switched to a 4k 55" curved TV, then went back to my pre VR favorite of triple screens with the two more cheap 55" 4k flat TVs. This is almost as good as VR in my book, but very temperamental with BMS and took up lots of space.
VR BMS has been a dream of mine for a long time if you go back to some old threads. I’m so excited to have it, but I’m also become a bit of a believer that OpenXR would be the best way to go if a BMS team member is familiar enough to implement it. Not only does it seem to have a lot more options and performance, it would open up PointCTRL (which is amazing!), DFR, I think fixing Pimax FOV issues, and other things.
As it goes with VR, I have experience with Oculus CV1, HTC Vive, Pimax 5k pre BMS VR so I’m not going to speak to them. But I will tell you mostly you get what you pay for in resolution but more importantly Pixels Per Degree (PPD) in at least the screen sweet spot, like the HPs higher central PPD but lower to the edges. Lenses do come into play too with sweet spot with face positioning in the headset too. I but have noticed a clarity difference from each step up in PPD even though it may only be a small increase each time. So definitely my BMS experience: Rift S<Quest 2<Pimax 8kX<HP Reverb G2<Pimax Crystal (which I just got yesterday and the hype is real of its clarity)
But I can also see the “night fog” that happens with non-fresnel lenses in the Crystal, but I think it’s local dimming isn’t on in that and didn’t have a chance to fly at night in BMS yesterdaybtobsee how that effects it. The night fog has been reported with the Pico 4 too of course and probably a thing on the Quest Pro and other pancake lenses.
As a former wide screen guy for a lot of years, I do honestly miss the FOV of the 8K X. The Crystal FOV is better than the G2, but nowhere close to the 8K X. If it came down to the Reverb G2 and a fully BMS supported 8K X on “large FOV” setting, I would take the slight clarity hit to get the amazing FOV of the 8K X. But with the Crystal’s clarity, there is really no going back now.
For a basically all of 4.37, I have been chopping the bottom of my VR facial interfaces to mostly be able to use my home cockpit physical switches, MFDs, and ICP, but secondarily see my MFDs monitor occasionally for fine detail stuff like TGP work. I no longer need to see under the VR for MFD display with the Crystal. I think it might be clearer than my 55" 4K, which is a little too close for “retina” distance with its 80 PPI.
I will also throw out there I think there is a usage bias here too. As some who loves outside the cockpit work of BFM, landing pattern work, formation, and AAR, VR with its 1:1 head tracking and stereoscopic view is big for me. I think those that gravitate more to air to ground, instrument work, etc. that require more head down stuff will like the clarity that traditional monitors bring.
-
@Snake122 said :
OpenXR would be the best way to go
-
@I-Hawk
I have a Pico 4. Its FOV is amazing. Nearly all screen is “sweet spot”. Moreover, the periphery is clearer than the center because it has denser pixels. However, I cannot say the overall picture is clear. I cannot read MFDs easily. But I must say that I didn’t have a chance to try it with Virtual Desktop. I only used it with its Streaming Assistant. The people who use it with Virtual Desktop claim it is clear though. -
@TUAF-Ripper I don’t understand how this works (not just you, other headset users too). I run a rift S and can read MFDs just fine without leaning in. I tried a quest 2 last week and it was definitely better but the rift s is still good enough. The main thing with usb attached headsets is to up the encoding quality so that you reduce compression artefacts.
-
@rubbra Yes, I think it is the main issue. Whether it has a display cable connection or not…
-
In my case, exactly the same as SoBad.
4k monitor and VR 2160x2160, which I choose depending on the mission, if it’s a flight in own campaign, or in a squadron campaign flight, etc.
As for the VR, I have a Pico4, which already, because of the pancake optics and its high resolution, look very good, but with the latest version of VirtualDesktop, they look much better.
Although it’s off-topic (sorry), I’d wait for the Oculus 3, which I think should be out soon, to see if they deliver what they promise. -
@Fresco said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
Although it’s off-topic (sorry), I’d wait for the Oculus 3, which I think should be out soon, to see if they deliver what they promise.
‘Oculus’ is history. Meta Quest 3. Just FYI.
-
@SoBad said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@SoBad said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk - Wish they had been checkboxes instead of option buttons. I use both VR & 4k monitor, about 50/50.
Yea I thought about it but actually I really wanted to get an idea about “Main usage” so only one for user, sorry. I guess your case is a bit special
BTW, if already opened that up, what makes the difference for you? Is it flight dependent? like “heavy MFDs” flights on screen with TIR, but lighter flights (e.g AA missions and DFs) in VR? Or is it something else? Really curious about that specifically, how do you choose and when?
My criterion is far more subjective than that. With the 4k monitor, I get far better graphics than VR. But with VR, the first thing I notice when I enter the pit is that I feel like I’m 10’ off the ground, looking over the edge of the pit to the concrete below. The sense of really being in the pit, the far more realistic head motion, the heightened immersion, if you will, compels me to use VR despite the lowered graphics. So it just depends on what mood I’m in-- high-end graphics or high-end immersion.
EDIT: One more thing-- VR is more labor intensive to use right now. Everything has to be done in just the right order to make VR work in this first draft of Falcon VR. Hopefully, it will get easier and better in future VR upgrades.
Sorry to stray off topic but what headset do you use? My vr setup is super simple. I’m looking at upgrading soon and wanted to make sure to stay away from anything with issues.
-
@TUAF-Ripper said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk
I have a Pico 4. Its FOV is amazing. Nearly all screen is “sweet spot”. Moreover, the periphery is clearer than the center because it has denser pixels. However, I cannot say the overall picture is clear. I cannot read MFDs easily. But I must say that I didn’t have a chance to try it with Virtual Desktop. I only used it with its Streaming Assistant. The people who use it with Virtual Desktop claim it is clear though.I just ordered a Pico4 30 minutes ago
It was cheap enough IMHO (358$ with free shipment from Japan to Israel) so I took the risk LOL. In last days I got deeper into my VR experience like I never did before, including some heavy MFD work (TGP bombing), and now I feel simply like the G2 sweetspot is annoying, yes very sharp at the center, but very blurry as you go away from there, so I said let’s give Pancake lenses a go. Yes I understand it’ll probably be less sharp than the G2 center area, but I guess I can sacrifice that if the overall “clear area” will be much larger.If the Pico 4 won’t be good, I may consider selling both headsets and simply go back to screen + MFDs with TIR. But I have a feeling it’ll be fine. Yesterday I kind of had a deeper test on TGP operation and it was pretty much OK, not bad at all eventually. I don’t have a problem really with leaning towards the MFD when necessary for some deep work, but the overall blurry edges of the G2 is annoying for me. For example in a DF, it makes half of the flying to feel pretty blurry…
@Snake122 Thanx for your feedback! Pimax Crystal must be amazing! Pancake lenses and higher res. Will be interesting to see how VR headsets will develop along with the future GPUs that will be able to deliver even more performance.
In general, BMS itself has a LOT to improve WRT VR:
- We probably need to implement OpenXR at some point
- We probably will have to implement something like FSR/DLSS
- We will need to change the way we draw stuff to be smarter (e.g instancing of obejcts to reduce number of draw calls)
- Maybe also making the internal VR targets smarter, e.g like rendering into 1 target with instancing which will cut the number of draw calls by a half. The actual meaning is that instead of drawing everything twice, one time into each eye, we will draw everything once but to 2 sides of a single texture, with instancing (Which is like 1 draw call to the GPU but 2 (and can be more) renders with some different settings like different matrices etc)
These are pretty far goals, but such improvements will blast VR performance in BMS to new heights.
-
@I-Hawk I’m super interested in your experience of the Pico 4 vs the G2, once you’ve had some time to experiment.
-
@I-Hawk said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
I don’t have a problem really with leaning towards the MFD when necessary for some deep work
Question from a monitor user: Does “Look Closer” work with VR goggles ?
Cheers,
JayB -
@jayb Yes, your head in the sim just moves along with your real head wearing the goggles. So if you physically move your head to take a closer look at something in the sim, that just works.
-
@Ricky said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@jayb Yes, your head in the sim just moves along with your real head wearing the goggles. So if you physically move your head to take a closer look at something in the sim, that just works.
Thanks, I wasn’t quite clear, sorry. I was referring to the “Look Closer” command which by default is on L and you can bind to a HOTAS key - it will toggle a zoomed in view. So basically you do not need to lean in. If that works in VR too, it should help with hard-to-read MFDs
-
@jayb Yes it does and well used on my X65F throttle view control hat with the VR view recenter.
@I-Hawk said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@Snake122 Thanx for your feedback! Pimax Crystal must be amazing! Pancake lenses and higher res. Will be interesting to see how VR headsets will develop along with the future GPUs that will be able to deliver even more performance.
In general, BMS itself has a LOT to improve WRT VR:
- We probably need to implement OpenXR at some point
- We probably will have to implement something like FSR/DLSS
- We will need to change the way we draw stuff to be smarter (e.g instancing of obejcts to reduce number of draw calls)
- Maybe also making the internal VR targets smarter, e.g like rendering into 1 target with instancing which will cut the number of draw calls by a half. The actual meaning is that instead of drawing everything twice, one time into each eye, we will draw everything once but to 2 sides of a single texture, with instancing (Which is like 1 draw call to the GPU but 2 (and can be more) renders with some different settings like different matrices etc)
These are pretty far goals, but such improvements will blast VR performance in BMS to new heights.
Good luck with the Pico 4, seems like a great option! Re: pancake lenses, I have definitely seen the “night fog” effect now. Local dimming does help and on the “extreme” setting you can see how it works but it actually causes a wierd of extra dark around the HMCS. Need to try to fly with the realistic option off it off but forgot.
Good to hear with the OpenXR and other hoped improvements! I get the picking a winner of FSR/DLSS is an issues but they are so helpful and unfortunately it seems Nvidia is going to continue to be the winner for the foreseeable future. -
I have a Samsun 49in Odyssey Ultra Wide but only use 2K screen - 2560x1440 portion of it with an extra 27in 2k monitor for OBS. So ya 2D
-
Samsung G9. 5120x1440
-
@I-Hawk said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@TUAF-Ripper said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk
I have a Pico 4. Its FOV is amazing. Nearly all screen is “sweet spot”. Moreover, the periphery is clearer than the center because it has denser pixels. However, I cannot say the overall picture is clear. I cannot read MFDs easily. But I must say that I didn’t have a chance to try it with Virtual Desktop. I only used it with its Streaming Assistant. The people who use it with Virtual Desktop claim it is clear though.I just ordered a Pico4 30 minutes ago
I’m sure they will suit you.
Remember that it is highly recommended to use VIRTUALDESKTOP.
But you have to buy it through the PICO shop, be aware that if you buy it from the Steam website, that version will not work for you.
Fresco
-
@I-Hawk Please comment on your impressions of Pico 4 as soon as possible, I am interested in buying it. greetings mate
-
@I-Hawk alongside those excellent technical implementation goals, are there any plans to revisit the cockpit model now we’ve gone VR? There are a few dubious areas I suspect, eg not being able to see the speed brake indicator without ducking down a bit, the MFDs almost touching the ankles. I imagine it’s not top of the backlog, as it’s not game breaking.