AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?
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When will KTO receive the latest AMRAAM, the AIM-120D, even if it’s limited to certain Viper blocks? And this begs the question, at least for me, if it’s possible to include the US ANG’s upgraded Vipers with the AESA radar. Yes, these are undoubtedly classified mods, but I would appreciate even a speculative simulation of each. Thanks!
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@dawgboy . Hi. I can’t speak for the regular KTO, but the Slammer-D is available in all OFM Family Theaters.
AESA has been discussed in the Forum before. The consensus seems to be that currently there isn’t enough unclassified information to model it properly.
If by “upgraded Vipers” you mean Block 70, it boils down to 2 things. The first is the same as the 120D, is the data to properly model it available? Secondly, who’s going to build both the model and the cockpit?
You see, a lot of times building a new jet boils down to someone who loves a jet enough to take on the project. For example, Mafia Brother Scorpion is doing great work on the Eurofighter. Someone would have to do the same with the Block 70 or whatever. I bring that up to say that the OFM would be happy to collaborate with such a person. -
@dawgboy definitely @drtbkj as says for the AIM-120D with OFM mods, which are great but somewhat too speculative for BMS on the performance of the D. As for AESA, BMS doesn’t due speculative like some of the other sims. You can be sure if things like IFF can’t be modeled fully, they won’t pursue it. I’m now a believer in this philosophy. When I want more the speculative I can fly the other modern combat sim option, but that is very rare these days for me because I like all of the hard RL things that BMS makes you do to get those toys, not just use them as an easy button with none of the drawbacks.
There was a point when I was younger I wanted all the latest and greatest toys modeled even if speculative, but that’s not what makes Falcon in general and BMS specifically special. Yes, that makes a lot of the features and modeling in BMS 10+ years old, but this all of this is done properly with the associated pilot workloads, not just a magic wand to have a feature function with none of the effort to make the feature work as a pilot. For me now, there are plenty of recent history about that far back what ifs to keep me entertained than to try to be on the bleeding edge of now that would mostly be guess work due to classified information. Give me the real deal 10+ years ago instead of however long ago the information allows of complete guess of today for BMS please that is often nerfed in implementation by other sims that attempt to model that stuff.
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@Snake122 said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@dawgboy definitely @drtbkj as says for the AIM-120D with OFM mods, which are great but somewhat too speculative for BMS on the performance of the D.
There was a point when I was younger I wanted all the latest and greatest toys modeled even if speculative, but that’s not what makes Falcon in general and BMS specifically special.
With all due, and considerable ,respect to Snake, I disagree that the 120D is too speculative. We put a lot of testing into that missile. We did what we could without hard code access, and with the specific goal of NOT making a “mini-nuke/magic bullet”.
However, @dawgboy , you should be aware of a “duality” within the BMS Family. There are those like Snake that have to be 100% as it happened in real life. I think it’s fairly safe to say that is the BMS Dev perspective. And frankly, for their role it’s the proper mindset. However, there there are those who like an element of “what if” and/or what is realistically possible. Just as examples, an internal IRST on the F-18. Or. HTS on a lot of non-Vipers These was never built that way(though the IRST was proposed for the Block III Rhino), but are certainly possible. We of the OFM are aware of that duality, and respect it. That is why we present such things as options. You do not have to use them in campaigns or TE’s. The Dogfight module is it’s “own little world” the H/SH come loaded with the 120D. But, if memory serves the Viper does not. -
@drtbkj I’ve noticed the Slammer-D in OFM offerings, which I like. Thanks for that. Roger the effort to create new blocks/mods. I’m interested, but haven’t done it before, by any stretch.
That said, I’m not suggesting Block 70, I don’t think. Whatever version is the USAF and Air National Guard bird, which I think is an upgraded F-16C/CM.
More later after I digest everything here.
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@drtbkj Does the AIM-120D require an AESA radar? I’m not completely sure.
@Snake122 I do appreciate the real-life aspect of BMS. When it comes to the primary for-profit Viper sim competitor, they are sticklers for the real-life Viper, too. They just don’t have the dynamic campaign of BMS.
All-in-all, just curious…I guess I’ll hit the OFM theaters for it.
Thanks, y’all.
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With these upgrades you got to remember the other side needs to get some type of improved capabilities as well. Can’t have 120D if Russia does not have upgraded R-77s or China having a capable PL-15.
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@dawgboy said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@drtbkj Does the AIM-120D require an AESA radar? I’m not completely sure.
Not in BMS, at least
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@AviationPlus said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
With these upgrades you got to remember the other side needs to get some type of improved capabilities as well. Can’t have 120D if Russia does not have upgraded R-77s or China having a capable PL-15.
Very true, @AviationPlus . In fact , restoring the balance was what led us to bringing the 120D in the first place. A Mini-Nuke/magic bullet is no fun, either
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@drtbkj said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@dawgboy said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@drtbkj Does the AIM-120D require an AESA radar? I’m not completely sure.
Not in BMS, at least
Looks as if AESA is recommended, but not required for AIM-120D. FYI
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@dawgboy said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@drtbkj said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@dawgboy said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@drtbkj Does the AIM-120D require an AESA radar? I’m not completely sure.
Not in BMS, at least
Looks as if AESA is recommended, but not required for AIM-120D. FYI
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/canada-to-upgrade-hornets-with-aesa-radar
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@drtbkj said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
With all due, and considerable ,respect to Snake, I disagree that the 120D is too speculative. We put a lot of testing into that missile. We did what we could without hard code access, and with the specific goal of NOT making a “mini-nuke/magic bullet”.
But last time i looked , unless you heavily modified it since (i must admit i stopped looking at your work after this episode) , your AIM120D modeling was absolutly not within the limits of physics.
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@Mav-jp said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@drtbkj said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
With all due, and considerable ,respect to Snake, I disagree that the 120D is too speculative. We put a lot of testing into that missile. We did what we could without hard code access, and with the specific goal of NOT making a “mini-nuke/magic bullet”.
But last time i looked , unless you heavily modified it since (i must admit i stopped looking at your work after this episode) , your AIM120D modeling was absolutly not within the limits of physics.
Hi, Mav. In what way? The 120D project came into being when when saw REDAIR constantly shooting at us for outside our range. We felt that was not realistic for a RL world that has the 120D in it. We wanted to offer the BMS Family options. So, we took the published 80-100 mile range for it, and went conservative with a goal range of approx. 60 at launch for head on/optimum engagements .For best results I’ve found about 40 miles for nose-to-nose, and 20 nose-to-tail , depending on range, altitude, aspect, etc. against fighters. So, we feel it has realistic range, pK, and is NOT a magic bullet.
As previously stated, those were the specific goals of the Project. So, we did the best we could do without hardcode access. That means things such as burn time in the misdat, etc… We ended up with 5 or so different models, finally deciding on what is in our database. Does it fly exactly like a RL Slammer-D “physically” ? Probably not. Given the tools we had to work with, of course it’s a compromise. We went for realistic effect, not physics.
However, we would be happy to collaborate with you to make it better. -
@drtbkj possibly when the missile was going mach 10 and doing a 180 to hit the target after it passed it once, did a 180, and passed it again.
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@Incognito-Mode said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@drtbkj possibly when the missile was going mach 10 and doing a 180 to hit the target after it passed it once, did a 180, and passed it again.
Let’s see the TacView track of that!
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@Incognito-Mode said in AIM-120D on the Viper for KTO?:
@drtbkj possibly when the missile was going mach 10 and doing a 180 to hit the target after it passed it once, did a 180, and passed it again.
I’ve not seen that. I have sometimes wondered if the missile is too “persistent” in certain regimes. So, any tacview or whatever you can provide is most welcome. However, the top speed of the missile is a known issue. We had to do that to get the range.
These type of things are exactly the kind of compromise discussed earlier. That is why we are always open to collaboration. If you can make it better, just watch how fast we adopt it.