WIP: Leopard 2 A5
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I wonder … maybe better to delete smoke grenades and place them on texture. I can save about 200 tris…
Looks very nice!
I say delete whatever you can to make it in the 2K tris limit, probably you can save some tris on all the round shapes you got there.
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Maybe the wheels could have been a texture. But I like your model, good work.
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Looks very nice!
I say delete whatever you can to make it in the 2K tris limit, probably you can save some tris on all the round shapes you got there.
I’m confused
You said about 2k …
1k = 1000
2k = 2000 tris
Tris limit is 4000 for ground vehicles
My model is about 3000 tris, so 3k?
I’m still working on reducing triangles … it is very hard to keep the limit. -
I would think the correct use of “Lod Distance” for at least 3 detailed Lod level models would of most importance also.
I have seen the effect of multiple 30-60k ground models that have a ridiculous “Lod Distance” set
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I’m confused
You said about 2k …
1k = 1000
2k = 2000 tris
Tris limit is 4000 for ground vehicles
My model is about 3000 tris, so 3k?
I’m still working on reducing triangles … it is very hard to keep the limit.Oh oh oh I’m sorry, you are right! The limit is indeed 4K, not sure why I always had 2K in mind :shock:
So just keep it as is, it looks great, BRAVO!
I would think the correct use of “Lod Distance” for at least 3 detailed Lod level models would of most importance also.
I have seen the effect of multiple 30-60k ground models that have a ridiculous “Lod Distance” set
What can I say about that? if you remember I came almost to any “new model(s)” thread in the forum and asked to keep tris count to the limits, but some people just say “yea yea yea, so we will make it an independent download”… so people think we are kidding… but at the end of the day your V-Card, whatever type or quality it is, is drawing triangles, so people make 60K vehicles with crazy LOD distance, you have a column of such 6-7 vehicles in front of you, you also have TGP on them, so you got ~300K tris rendered double time just for those vehicles…
I’m not saying the limits cannot get a big higher in the future, but as you see it’s possible to create great looking ground vehicles, ACs and ships within the limits, and with correct LOD distance
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I’m still working on reducing triangles … it is very hard to keep the limit.
, welcome to 3D modellers world, Arek.
I’ll not reinvent the wheel, but you can save a lot of Tris there.
So I did a little workshop for you, … maybe one or the other part of it helps you to reduce polys,
which can be used elsewhere on the model. (to keep your grenades in 3D for example )=========================================
OK, as a start I did a 12 sided cylinder, with 3 cap segments.
After selecting and extruding some polys using the edit poly modifier,
it looks similar to your wheel. (192 Triangles)=========================================
If we select those needless edges on the bottom …=========================================
… and remove them, we are down to 144 Triangles.=========================================
Now let’s replace that middle part with an extra cylinder, so select those polys …=========================================
… and delete them.
Then select those 12 inner vertex …=========================================
… and collapse them.=========================================
Next create a new 12 sided cylinder, select needless bottom polys, and delete them.=========================================
Now place this cylinder in the middle of our wheel. (use the Align tool to place it exactly)=========================================
From bottom our wheel looks still like this, but we can reduce some polys even here.=========================================
By using the Target Weld tool from vertex sub object menu, weld the center vertex to an outer vertex.
(saves 2 Triangles)=========================================
Do the same on the top center vertex, and we end up with 126 Triangles for now. -
Fine, so atm. we have 126 Tris for one wheel.
Now what if we think about to create two wheels in one part,
because most of the bottom geometry might be hidden anyway, so …=========================================
2 wheels in one part, … 184 Tris.=========================================
You could simply texture the middle part in dark color, so “Joe Pilot” might not spot the “fake”.
(I quickly did another darker cyl here to explain the texture thing)=========================================
Let’s select those polys left and right and detach them to a new object.=========================================
If we hide that fresh detached object, we see some potential to poly optimize further.=========================================
Long story short, if we make it look like a tube (or create a new one), …=========================================
… then we have saved again 24 Tris.
Unhide our detached object again.=========================================
And we can still reduce some Tris …
Hide the main object to get free view on our detached object.
Now select those 8 edges like I did and collapse them.=========================================
… another 8 Tris saved.==========================================
Uhmm, looks a little small if we unhide our main object.=========================================
So simply scale the detached object in xy.=========================================
Finally we could end up with 152 Triangles for two wheels.At the end select all vertex of each object and use the Weld tool with a low distance value.
Beside reducing the sides of the cylinder(s) that’s the max. Tri optimizion a modeller can do
for such an object, IMHO.And sure Arek, you can also save 4 Tris from the single wheel by using detach, select/collapse edges,
then scale detached object.I hope this post helps you and others, and maybe even creates ideas how to save some Tris
in other 3D modelling situations.Cheers,
LS -
I’ve read that you should not have faces with more than 4 sides? for some reason. I think it was something about triangles, a square make two triangles. Is that of importance too?
Regards
F -
Sorry Arek, but …
I’ve read that you should not have faces with more than 4 sides?
In 3dsmax (and for my understanding) a Face is a triangle.
How can a triangle have more than 3 sides?IIRC and AFAIK some modellers try to avoid Polygons with more than 4 sides for some reason.
In the end everything is based on Triangles in 3D world.
I think it was something about triangles, a square make two triangles.
Correct.
Is that of importance too?
Yes.
In 3dsmax create a box, add an edit poly modifier, press 1 on the keyboard to change to Vertex submode.
Select one Vertex of the box and move it 30% into the box.Press 4 on the keyboard to change to Polgon submode.
In the Edit Polygons rollout menu press Turn.Now you see all those triangles.
on a side which is affected by the moved Vertex, click on a dashed line to turn it’s direction
and watch how the look of your model changes.Cheers,
LS -
Thank you for your kind explanation, Lazystone!
I don’t have time to make it, but it is really great that you take time to show your knowledge!
It is moreover very clear and useful for beginners or apprentices!
Best regards,
Radium
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In 3dsmax (and for my unstanding) a Face is a triangle.
Hi Lazy, AFAIK a face isn’t necessarily a triangle, but can also refer to a quad (2 triangles). For example the quads that we render the clouds and PS particles on are called faces, but each is made of 2 triangles.
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Hi Lazy, AFAIK a face isn’t necessarily a triangle, but can also refer to a quad (2 triangles). For example the quads that we render the clouds and PS particles on are called faces, but each is made of 2 triangles.
That’s why I said “in 3dsmax”.
I know there are differently meanings for the same term in the 3D modellers world,
and that’s why not only newbie 3D modellers are confused sometimes.It’s the same when we talk about max. polycount but mean triangles.
… not long ago I was misleading Pumpyhead by using the word polycount instead of triscount … LOL.Cheers,
LS -
@LS
Thank you very much for the great tutorial.My wheel is 106 tris ATM and split into 4 parts:
I have deleted invisible poly (count…each poly 2x tris):
You could simply texture the middle part in dark color, so “Joe Pilot” might not spot the “fake”.
(I quickly did another darker cyl here to explain the texture thing)You’re right “Joe Pilot” might not spot the “fake” cyl… But if someone wants to make a screenshot (near distance), it may look not nice.
So I did the green part of the wheel:A better example is here:
rendering without the green parts:rendering with a green parts:
I have to try Your idea.
I also have another think …delete green part and yellow part change in LodEditor as LP- NodeType, then rendering will be 2 sides (I have not tested it yet).
The next think…in my wheel is… reduction from 12 sided cylinder to less in the blue part… but I leave it until my model is below 4K.I hope you understand what I mean :)… And please share your experience … Master lazystone. :bowd:;)
Eghi
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@LS
Thank you very much for the great tutorial.My wheel is 106 tris ATM and split into 4 parts:
I have deleted invisible poly (count…each poly 2x tris):
This might not be as efficient as you think. Compare vertex counts between what you have and if the wheel was one object. Vertices are the things the engine has to transform in order to get your model from object space into world space.
Plus anything that breaks the rendering batch is bad i.e. ptype changes, shading groups, texture change.
Any break in rendering batch mean another draw call, with each draw call you get 300 tris for free effectively. So low level lods less than 300 are probably pointless but they must be all one batch.
Regards
Dave -
My wheel is 106 tris ATM
I also have another think …delete green part and yellow part change in LodEditor as LP- NodeType, then rendering will be 2 sides (I have not tested it yet).
The next think…in my wheel is… reduction from 12 sided cylinder to less in the blue part… but I leave it until my model is below 4K.2- sided rendering would be nice, … keep us updated
I hope you understand what I mean
Absolutely
@Eghi:And please share your experience
Pfff, buy a book or watch tutorials at youtube.
… Master lazystone. :bowd:;)
Compared to those real Masters around, I’m still a rookie.Cheers,
LS -
Compared to those real Masters around, I’m still a rookie.Cheers,
LSWow, the new of the day: Finally, I found the lazy rookie :rofl:
Haha…
Nikos. -
This might not be as efficient as you think.
I guess we thought about polycount (tris), that’s all.
Compare vertex counts between what you have and if the wheel was one object. Vertices are the things the engine has to transform in order to get your model from object space into world space.
Do vertex counts weight more than tri counts?
If the wheel is one object the tri count is 144.
So I think the result in post #16 is the best, tri count is 126 and vertex count is
also less than if the wheel was one object. No?Plus anything that breaks the rendering batch is bad i.e. ptype changes, shading groups, texture change.
Any break in rendering batch mean another draw call, with each draw call you get 300 tris for free effectively. So low level lods less than 300 are probably pointless but they must be all one batch.
Regards
DaveIs the GFX engine smart enough to render all identically ptypes first, then next,
… all identically shading groups first, then next, etc.
or do it render how it comes (which results in more draw calls)?Cheers,
LS -
+1 eager for the answers…
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What can I say about that? if you remember I came almost to any “new model(s)” thread in the forum and asked to keep tris count to the limits, but some people just say “yea yea yea, so we will make it an independent download”… so people think we are kidding… but at the end of the day your V-Card, whatever type or quality it is, is drawing triangles, so people make 60K vehicles with crazy LOD distance, you have a column of such 6-7 vehicles in front of you, you also have TGP on them, so you got ~300K tris rendered double time just for those vehicles…
I’m not saying the limits cannot get a big higher in the future, but as you see it’s possible to create great looking ground vehicles, ACs and ships within the limits, and with correct LOD distance
Totally agree, there are some good low poly models already in falcon, a thousand ( or two ) poly model can be a big improvement on many of the others.
I don’t need hi detail models on the average ground unit, but it would be nice to see the lods transition nicely preserving the outline/shape texture out to at least 3000ft and then to have decent destroyed models to BDA after.
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2k Tris limit is hard target for Vehicles with 12 or more Wheels without normal maps.
In other hand, is it very difficult to reduce tris count for LODs from Objects with very high tris count.