Yellow spider
-
Noob sim question: the canopy can be closed very first thing in ramp start. Is that realistic modeling? If so, where does the power come from?
-
Jet is connected to power cart on the ramp.
-
Jet is connected to power cart on the ramp.
Not necessary. According to the -1, the canopy actuator is powered by emergency DC Bus no. 2, and power is available from the internal battery bus box when main pwr switch is in OFF position.
-
the F-16 is pretty autonomous, it doesn’t need a power cart unless on maintenance.
What would be the point to connect a power cart only to open the canopy from outside for the first flight of the day
-
@JJO:
Thanks all for many replies. keeps one big question unanswered. When is the warninglight off. (1. after closing the canopy or 2. after closing the canopy and with the spider down) My quess is the second option , maybe Stubbies2003 can step in here.
The spider option of Martin is only made for eyecandy and protecting the switch. His construction is made for 90 pct of us as pitbuilders. My cockpit is based on real construction and the spider construction of Martin is not usuable. The spring of the spider is connected to a bracked that is connected to one of the ribconstructions. Big compliments for his work, and he knows that from me
My guess would be that the Warning should extinguish once the canopy seal is inflated…so, once the spider is down and possibly (probably…) not until sometime post engine start after bleed air is available to pressurize the inflatable seal.
Martin’s bracket is made to allow full function of the spider - it’s just that he’s incorporated some time saving brackets. And it will also be interesting to see how it fits into his side structure, once that is available…I’m very tempted to buy his whole metal pit structure…IF I can handle the cost of shipping to the USA!
-
IMHO - and I should check before saying what I think , the WARNING light is mechanically latched with the hooks. Once the last hooks engage the warning light should go off
The seal has nothing to do with the safe closing of the canopy.
It’s a cabin pressure feature and that one should rather be linked to the cabin press caution light. Well not directly linked but rather if the seal has a problem, the cabin press caution light will come on because the pressurisation won’t be normal -
Makes sense, RD…as I forgot about the second warning light!!! Was just thinking about the third switch under the canopy that controls the pressurization.
-
Can we conclude that after closing the spider and the canopy is closed the warning light goes off ?
To Reddog, can you add the full function of the canopy switch and spider in the wishlist for BMS ? -
In regards of what has been discussed here above, I think BMS works exactly the correct way.
The CANOPY Warning Light on the right glareshied goes off a slight delay after full canopy closure animation (which includes the spider closing)
That slight delay is for the hook to engageSo IMHO, there is nothing to request, it’s already correctly implemented
unless you want something else?
-
In Bms there is now the simplified canopy function, offcourse enough for most users. My request is that the switch and spider works as it should be.
1. Switch up, canopy open
2. Momentary hold switch down for closing the canopy
3. After closing the spider, the canopy warning light goes off.To be honoust, i have not a slight idea, if programming this request is easy or complicated. The bms team is fantastic and i notice they try to reach perfection. Maybe my request is possible ?
-
@JJO:
In Bms there is now the simplified canopy function, offcourse enough for most users. My request is that the switch and spider works as it should be.
1. Switch up, canopy open
2. Momentary hold switch down for closing the canopy
3. After closing the spider, the canopy warning light goes off.Well you need to ask for the correct bits first. The canopy going down all the way AND the locking claws of the canopy fully engaging will shut off the canopy warning light indication. Totally different than the spider handle which ties in with the cockpit pressurization via the canopy seal.
-
…so…for us pit builders, we can key off the light bits or use all spider switches and let BMS run the lights. I’ll get it when I get there…:roll:…
-
Looks like there is some miscommunication here. In the real jet, the CANOPY light will not extinguish until the spider guard is lowered. It has nothing to do with the switch or “claws” being engaged.
-
…ok. I pretty much believe this, and that there is more than one switch involved in the logic - which I still think that a pit builder can synthesize outside of BMS.
-
Looks like there is some miscommunication here. In the real jet, the CANOPY light will not extinguish until the spider guard is lowered. It has nothing to do with the switch or “claws” being engaged.
In BMS, the spider and the canopy switch are considered as a single entity.
With the mouse you click on the spider hotspot and the canopy close, the spider close and the canopy warning goes off
with the keystroke you use whatever callback you want (canopy toggle or canopy close or canopy open) and once the canopy is fully closed the spider close and the warning light goes offWarning canopy light work as expected
callbacks for canopy have the toggle and the all statethe only thing left which may be an issue is the fact that canopy switch and spider action are common in BMS 3D pit.
So basically the way to solve this for pitbuilders would be to have a separate callback to close the spider (different from the canopy callbacks) and it’s only after that the canopy warning light should go off -
Hey,
Ok a few problems here. The spider handle doesn’t do anything to raise or lower the canopy at all. It simply covers the canopy switch and triggers the canopy seal inflation. The spider handle does NOT limit movement of the throttle to prevent AB activation on the ground when in the up position.
You write the same as I was saying… Spider is not doing anything with raising/lowering the canopy. Its a swithc guard.
The spider does limit the travel. While it is open, you can not, in a normal way, move the throttle past the spider.
You will hurt your hand if you do.
Not home so I can’t make pics, sorry.You are missing what they are asking for which is two callbacks for two completely different actions just like on the real aircraft. BMS has it simplified to one action/callback.
Sure I understand this. But if (yes if) the spider is not doing anything, adding a second callback is not needed. That was my point.
However, the picture RD posted with the push button which is triggered by the spider makes it clear that it does do something.
This changed my point of viewI still do have a little problem with this. As you can have the canopy open and still close the spider, the 6 hooks will be deployed and seal blown. Could be a problem IRL.
Sorry but wrong answer again. The canopy switch is a three position switch. It will hold in either the middle/no move position or in the up/open position. The down/close position is spring loaded to go back to the middle/no move position. When you close the spider handle this forces the canopy switch to the middle/no move position NOT the close/down position so no closing the spider handle does NOT start to close the canopy. This would also make zero sense as the spider handle is what triggers the canopy seal to inflate and the canopy is not going to seat properly with an inflated seal in it’s way never mind actually pressurizing.
The angled part can be adjusted, mine was probably wrongly set and was pushing down the switch.
But I can see that the middle position would be better.Gr Falcas
-
@Red:
In BMS, the spider and the canopy switch are considered as a single entity.
With the mouse you click on the spider hotspot and the canopy close, the spider close and the canopy warning goes off
with the keystroke you use whatever callback you want (canopy toggle or canopy close or canopy open) and once the canopy is fully closed the spider close and the warning light goes offWarning canopy light work as expected
callbacks for canopy have the toggle and the all statethe only thing left which may be an issue is the fact that canopy switch and spider action are common in BMS 3D pit.
So basically the way to solve this for pitbuilders would be to have a separate callback to close the spider (different from the canopy callbacks) and it’s only after that the canopy warning light should go offI think us pit builders can work with this - since the spider holds the canopy switch in the “close” position we could put an intervention in Pokeys/Arduino to not send the single callback until some multi-switch condition in the pit is met; possibly even with some time delay. Then just let BMS do it’s thing. This should work until BMS itself is updated (if it gets an update for this), and also allow pit builders to build/plan for future accommodation.
-
Thanks all for discussing this part of the aircraft. I start to become a bit confused. When goes the warning light off ? When the canopy claws are at final position ? Or when the spider is down ? As written before, there are several momentary switches ( one under the spider and one under the left aft glareshield and maybe more ? ) personally i think that after the spider is down and the claws are at position the warning light goes off.
As reddog wrote , bms misses the spider function and offcourse the momentary switch down for canopy closing.
Another point what Falcas wrote… when canopy is open and the spider goes down, the seal is inflated and full power is possible…is there a protection onboard ???
A small part of the aircraft… so many questions…complicated hobby we have… -
@JJO:
Thanks all for discussing this part of the aircraft. I start to become a bit confused. When goes the warning light off ? When the canopy claws are at final position ? Or when the spider is down ? As written before, there are several momentary switches ( one under the spider and one under the left aft glareshield and maybe more ? ) personally i think that after the spider is down and the claws are at position the warning light goes off.
As reddog wrote , bms misses the spider function and offcourse the momentary switch down for canopy closing.
Another point what Falcas wrote… when canopy is open and the spider goes down, the seal is inflated and full power is possible…is there a protection onboard ???
A small part of the aircraft… so many questions…complicated hobby we have…The seals inflate and the CANOPY light extinguishes when the spider guard is down.
-
That answers my main question, without the spider down, the warning is stays on. But….when the canopy is open and the spider is down…is the canopy warning light off ?
I know from a f16 pilot that during flight the canopy light goes sometimes on and off because trembling of the canopy.