Ff you could have one thing in the next update it would be…
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Next I will try again my worst case…
Spawn delay 20 min., 10 enemy a/c’s on the ground, and guns guns guns.The last time I tried, I had still my old rig with a i5-3450 (3,2 GHz) and a GTX-960, and the result, after hitting most of the a/c’s in one run, was a “down to under 10 FPS”.
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Lol, nice. But you know you’re not actually getting those frames, right? Sorry to be a killjoy but you can’t make a 60hz monitor display 95 FPS.
With almost similar nvidia settings on my 1080, and vsync on, the ingame fps will “lock” to the monitor refresh rate. My monitors are 60hz, but boosted to 75hz, they do support this hidden option. So in game fps with vsync on is 75 nomatter of flir, tgp, weather etc.
With vsync off it goes up to 240 fps max. Since the monitor can only work in 75, that practically means that if you quickly move your track-ir head from left-view to right within cockpit, you’ll notice some little image stuttering. Not disturbing unless you want to record a video and need perfect image.
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I swear I’m not trying to troll, but it is on the ground that low FPS could be assessed and measured with ease. It’s never really comfortable to rampstart with a TrackIR and a sloppy FPS rate. Nor flying, but FPS are better in the air.
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Worse case scenario: Campaign, DAY1 0730, Poor weather, 100% Cumlus, TGP + WPN + FLIR on HUD, 12 displayed contrails. => 20FPS. Still playable, perfect for me.
20 FPS perfect for you, not perfect for me. Thanks for testing and sharing the results with us.
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There is more to FPS than just the display on the monitor. May not be getting more than 60 frames on the display, but the rest of the game (IE That dynamic campaign and all the 3D objects being updated) is running faster.
I don’t believe that’s true, is it? I don’t think vsync affects what the CPU is doing or what speed it’s computing the campaign or 3D objects at. It just adjusts how the frames are presented to the monitor. At least that was my understanding.
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I don’t believe that’s true, is it? I don’t think vsync affects what the CPU is doing or what speed it’s computing the campaign or 3D objects at. It just adjusts how the frames are presented to the monitor. At least that was my understanding.
U r saying exactly the same thing as Mortesil said.
Re read it please. Probably a misunderstanding.
And in 20fps on the ground or some points on the air is fine for maaaaany ppl. If u want more fps invest money on your hw setup.
Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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U r saying exactly the same thing as Mortesil said.
Re read it please. Probably a misunderstanding.
And in 20fps on the ground or some points on the air is fine for maaaaany ppl. If u want more fps invest money on your hw setup.
Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
I re-read. I don’t think I’m saying the same thing as Mortesil. I think he’s saying your computer will process the campaign faster if you don’t use vsync and leave your FPS uncapped. I’m saying I don’t believe it works that way. Maybe Mortesil can clarify.
And in response to your suggestion to upgrade my hardware my point is that BMS doesn’t make use of the hardware. What’s the point of getting an expensive multi-core CPU and top of the line GPU when BMS doesn’t take advantage of them very well? I have an I7, 32 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 1080. What’s left to upgrade at this point? I mean, it’s cool that 20 FPS is fine by your standards, but wouldn’t you like to be able to run the AGM65 tutorial at 60 FPS? Wouldn’t you like it if guys like Tomcatz could build amazing theaters like the Baltic Theater and have it actually be playable? It’s not just about getting 60 FPS under normal circumstances in Korea it’s about the poor optimization stifling community development.
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but wouldn’t you like to be able to run the AGM65 tutorial at 60 FPS?
Sure. And I would also win 1.000.000€ at the lottery.
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Sure. And I would also win 1.000.000€ at the lottery.
It never takes me long to remember why I don’t come to this forum often. Peace out.
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I re-read. I don’t think I’m saying the same thing as Mortesil. I think he’s saying your computer will process the campaign faster if you don’t use vsync and leave your FPS uncapped. I’m saying I don’t believe it works that way. Maybe Mortesil can clarify.
And in response to your suggestion to upgrade my hardware my point is that BMS doesn’t make use of the hardware. What’s the point of getting an expensive multi-core CPU and top of the line GPU when BMS doesn’t take advantage of them very well? I have an I7, 32 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 1080. What’s left to upgrade at this point? I mean, it’s cool that 20 FPS is fine by your standards, but wouldn’t you like to be able to run the AGM65 tutorial at 60 FPS? Wouldn’t you like it if guys like Tomcatz could build amazing theaters like the Baltic Theater and have it actually be playable? It’s not just about getting 60 FPS under normal circumstances in Korea it’s about the poor optimization stifling community development.
That is absolutely amazing that in the same post you praise the fantastic tomcatz theater and criticize the poor optimization development
I think you missed something down the line
So if I understand correctly
Coders need to work hard for optimization but theater developers don’t ?
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If I could have one thing, I’d love the Ground Forces to get off their lazy butts and start moving up without me having to tell them to do it. I had a funny occurrence where All DPRK Ground Forces were dead within 30 miles and they just sat there for 6 hours before I had to tell them to get up and go. Despite it saying they were on the Offensive. Honestly, and they call us the “Chair Force”. HA
But seriously, is there a way to gently nudge them with PAKs or something to move up without directly controlling them?
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Rasputin having a 1080 is good but doesn’t cover the whole story.
Have u optimized your system?
On what resolution r u on? How many monitors?
Can they handle above the 60fps?Falcon is a unique monster kept alive and kicking for free from ppl on their free time.
Which means if Mohammed doesn’t go to mountain, the mountain goes to Mohammed.
R u willing to contribute freely and help optimizing for what u ask for?
And there r ppl having very good results and some saying never drop bellow 60 fps no matter what.
So the solutions and choices are available. What say u?Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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I’m assuming you have read the BMS-Manual? I draw your attention to Chapter 4.5, entitled The FPS Quest and quote:
BMS for all its improvements is still based on the ancient Falcon 4.0 code, which was not optimised for today’s
multi-threaded, multi-core CPUs and GPUs capable of parallel processing. The code renders views in a more
serialised way, one after the other. So the more views we render and the more there is to see in a particular
view, the slower everything gets. As such it benefits much more from a fast CPU than a multi-core one.If you look at Task Manager or Resource Monitor you’ll notice that neither the CPU nor the GPU are working
with a heavy load; they are in fact idling much of the time because of the serial nature of the code. The BMS
coders have stretched the potential of the Falcon code beyond the wildest dreams of its creators, but there is a
limit to what can be achieved with the current engine, which cannot even remotely make use of all the
hardware power which is available today; it follows an ancient design that has no clue about parallelism, so a
single fast GPU is preferable to a SLI or Crossfire configuration of slightly slower ones.Now there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to improve this optimisation and hence make more use of more powerful CPU and GPU resources, but let’s be realistic this is a long-term project, as changing code which was essentially serial in nature to make the most of 20 years of hardware and software development is no small task.
One recent massive improvement you have all seen is the processing of ACMI files. I think we would all agree this is a step in the right direction.
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I’m assuming you have read the BMS-Manual? I draw your attention to Chapter 4.5, entitled The FPS Quest and quote:
Now there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to improve this optimisation and hence make more use of more powerful CPU and GPU resources, but let’s be realistic this is a long-term project, as changing code which was essentially serial in nature to make the most of 20 years of hardware and software development is no small task.
One recent massive improvement you have all seen is the processing of ACMI files. I think we would all agree this is a step in the right direction.
We are grateful for all we receive … and the pricing is spot on ;0)
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It never takes me long to remember why I don’t come to this forum often. Peace out.
?! Why do you said that?
I am just pointing the fact that we ALL would like to get 100FPS+ in game. But considering the results we have with a 20Y old code, it is not that bad to be still be able to run that game on Windows10.
And it won’t be better even if the code is more optimized, if, 3rd party developers do not care about the limits we are suggesting. They could at least stay close to it. But not violating that much the internal limits. Even with a perfectly optimized code it wont work:
If tomorrow we can safely push the limits up to 15000 objectives and 100.000 ploy for each 3Dmodels, if theater devs comes with 30000 objectives and 200.000 poly models without proper lods defined, it will still be a problem. As you know … ppl always wants more.It is a matter of doing want we can with what we have. Baltic could works way better with a better optimization of current available resources. Once again, Tom always said that considering that always claimed that he doesn’t want to comply with constrains.
I was also happy to see Tom coming with GREAT new models to replace old one! … but … they are not usable for a big part of users with no very high end config in all cases and worse scenarios.
Hi Tom!
Still no lower LODs and no optimized texture?
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@Tom:
Yes, of course.
I can clean up the Eagles from all the SWITCHES Inside the Cockpit. Can remove the wires, brakes and the mechanics of the nozzles. But I used the models since years without any Problems. And my PC is an old i3 dual core 1.8 GHz with a 1Gb RAM graphic card and 4GB RAM.
But I don’t wanna save polygones any more because There are many many LODs in game and the BMS Engine is very strong.
Cheers
TomSo what can we do about it? … Even you are limited with your VERY good computer. We all have to play by the rules defined by code and what is going behind the visual aspect of the sim (war game running below your virtual plane).
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?! Why do you said that?
That’s why I stopped the conversation with him, it’s not worth the struggle he seems to be under??!!??
C9
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…
While the BMS community has had some awesome modeling done, you (TomCatz) and Hayab are putting out some seriously cool stuff.
The BMS Dev team would be moronic not to include the work you guys have done in the next official update!
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The work of Hayab and Tomcatz is top-notch and deserves to be a part of the sim for every user. There have been other mods that I’ve found to be well-done, but the modeling work seen here is simply outstanding and a HUGE upgrade to what BMS offers.
… well … today we have Hayab models in the stock DB, he has even been integrated to the BMS team. Why? … because if is doing GREAT models, but … within BMS defined specs. Are they less good visually than Tom’s models? … I do not think so (?) …
Just for the story:
Tom, lower LODs from different models aren’t good because it cause the DX engine to load a new set of textures for the lower LODs when they are loaded. This is bad practice, once a model textures been loaded by DX, they should be used for all LODs of the same model.
Frankly, I don’t care if one wants to release a zillion polys model for BMS, he can do that, but the least one could do is supply lower LODs for the same model, in order to reduce the extra work of loading new textures. You may find it OK even if you have a low end system, but I can tell you that I have a quite high-end one and I still find BMS being heavy in some extreme situations in campaign. Not talking about some guys with 4-5 screens to support a full cockpit, they sometimes have to disable some shaders in order to have a flyable sim. And more, if you look into the future, we are talking about 4K resolutions, and maybe some heavier shaders etc…
I don’t understand why someone as talented as yourself not taking the time to create 1 model that is built from bottom to top for BMS, you can make it 100K polys if you like (but I’ve see talented folks creating 30K tris models in awesome quality (actually I’ve see even 15K-20K tris in amazing quality but that case is a bit rare I guess) and just do it completely, I promise you that you will get much more respect from everyone for that, than releasing dozens of unfinished or half-baked models. But, at the end it’s your time and your choice, you can do whatever you like, just this is IMHO disrespect to the spirit of Falcon to release models like that.
Happy new year!
@Tom:
Well,
I have an i3, 4GB RAM and a 1GB videocard. All works fine without any Problems. What is working on my old Station should work on every other System.
I tryed Balkan because that Theater looks very very fine. But alltimes it chrashed. I never replaced any model in that Theater so it should not the Problem of models in it.- too many texture tiles maybe?
Models without lower LOD`s? Sure! Because there are allready lower LODs are still in it. So its not necessary. A triangle is a triangle. Sure, replacing all stages of the LODs should generate deep Trouble and I never said or did it.
Cheers
TomTom, lower LODs from different models aren’t good because it cause the DX engine to load a new set of textures for the lower LODs when they are loaded. This is bad practice, once a model textures been loaded by DX, they should be used for all LODs of the same model.
Frankly, I don’t care if one wants to release a zillion polys model for BMS, he can do that, but the least one could do is supply lower LODs for the same model, in order to reduce the extra work of loading new textures. You may find it OK even if you have a low end system, but I can tell you that I have a quite high-end one and I still find BMS being heavy in some extreme situations in campaign. Not talking about some guys with 4-5 screens to support a full cockpit, they sometimes have to disable some shaders in order to have a flyable sim. And more, if you look into the future, we are talking about 4K resolutions, and maybe some heavier shaders etc…
I don’t understand why someone as talented as yourself not taking the time to create 1 model that is built from bottom to top for BMS, you can make it 100K polys if you like (but I’ve see talented folks creating 30K tris models in awesome quality (actually I’ve see even 15K-20K tris in amazing quality but that case is a bit rare I guess) and just do it completely, I promise you that you will get much more respect from everyone for that, than releasing dozens of unfinished or half-baked models. But, at the end it’s your time and your choice, you can do whatever you like, just this is IMHO disrespect to the spirit of Falcon to release models like that.
Happy new year!
@Red:
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Software updates always have led the hardware market. Dev are always trying to improve FPS. Nothing new on that aspect
We’re Lucky the Falcon code is old and cope pretty well with current hardware, still added functionnalities will increase the memory and the hardware load.
But the community work with unfinished stuff, templates, out of specs models will even further increase that load.
It’s a question of having the big picture in mind and having multiple mod sources that don’t have the big picture in mind.
In the end, it’s your install and you do whatever you want with it. But don’t complain because of the increased load, devs are not the only ones responsible of it.
Wild modding is as wellLet’s look back and list the "finished and up to specs 3D models that the community here provided as improvement sicne the release of BMS4.32.
Let’s discard the ripped models from other sources too
How many do we have left?… May I suggest you to read the entire thread. We all are gratfull with the fact that Tom is sharing he work with everyone. Unfortunately, not everyone can enjoy it the same he is. But he chose his own way … not something we are responsible for not something we can do about it. Rasputin, if your eyes are burning under 100FPS … BMS team can’t help you when you are running BMS on Baltic theater. Korea is the best we can ofer on our side at present time.