Please choose your main display system when flying BMS
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Hi everyone,
Just for gathering statistics, nothing more, I’m curious to know what kind of display and display resolution you are using for your main display device while flying full missions in BMS. Please choose one of the options.
Important: please choose only for you main display and one that you are using for flying full missions in BMS. So for example if you have a VR headset but you aren’t using it for BMS missions flying (Maybe you use it for Dogfights only?), then please don’t choose VR.
Cheers!
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@I-Hawk - Wish they had been checkboxes instead of option buttons. I use both VR & 4k monitor, about 50/50.
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@SoBad said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk - Wish they had been checkboxes instead of option buttons. I use both VR & 4k monitor, about 50/50.
Yea I thought about it but actually I really wanted to get an idea about “Main usage” so only one for user, sorry. I guess your case is a bit special
BTW, if already opened that up, what makes the difference for you? Is it flight dependent? like “heavy MFDs” flights on screen with TIR, but lighter flights (e.g AA missions and DFs) in VR? Or is it something else? Really curious about that specifically, how do you choose and when?
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1080p (or actually 1200p ) got my vote, becausr that’s what I have. 'tho longterm plan is to migrate to VR. I just need to know if my brain can handle VR at all and then if so lots of $$$ free to spend on hardware
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@I-Hawk said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@SoBad said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk - Wish they had been checkboxes instead of option buttons. I use both VR & 4k monitor, about 50/50.
Yea I thought about it but actually I really wanted to get an idea about “Main usage” so only one for user, sorry. I guess your case is a bit special
BTW, if already opened that up, what makes the difference for you? Is it flight dependent? like “heavy MFDs” flights on screen with TIR, but lighter flights (e.g AA missions and DFs) in VR? Or is it something else? Really curious about that specifically, how do you choose and when?
My criterion is far more subjective than that. With the 4k monitor, I get far better graphics than VR. But with VR, the first thing I notice when I enter the pit is that I feel like I’m 10’ off the ground, looking over the edge of the pit to the concrete below. The sense of really being in the pit, the far more realistic head motion, the heightened immersion, if you will, compels me to use VR despite the lowered graphics. So it just depends on what mood I’m in-- high-end graphics or high-end immersion.
EDIT: One more thing-- VR is more labor intensive to use right now. Everything has to be done in just the right order to make VR work in this first draft of Falcon VR. Hopefully, it will get easier and better in future VR upgrades.
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@SoBad @I-Hawk Absolutely can confirm, what SoBad said.
I use 100% VR even though I have a complete 1:1 cockpit and was flying it with a 3x projector 220° screen before 4.37. It is unbeatable, except one big point unfortunately.This point is the read-ability of the MFD, I’m heavily annoyed by the fact I can barely read BE readouts etc. Even though I have a Pimax8K+ and a 4090 and very very good eyesight, there is no way I can read the text in the MFD without glancing forward.
But VR is simply so good that even this is not a blocker for me to use it.
I’m flying mainly A-A BVR in a virtual squadron, where for example BE readouts are very important to have a good tactical effect and most importantly it is required to read them at a fast glance, to react fast and appropriate. Currently this fast glancing reading is nog really possible for me unfortunately. -
@Korbi said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@SoBad @I-Hawk Absolutely can confirm, what SoBad said.
I use 100% VR even though I have a complete 1:1 cockpit and was flying it with a 3x projector 220° screen before 4.37. It is unbeatable, except one big point unfortunately.This point is the read-ability of the MFD, I’m heavily annoyed by the fact I can barely read BE readouts etc. Even though I have a Pimax8K+ and a 4090 and very very good eyesight, there is no way I can read the text in the MFD without glancing forward.
But VR is simply so good that even this is not a blocker for me to use it.
I’m flying mainly A-A BVR in a virtual squadron, where for example BE readouts are very important to have a good tactical effect and most importantly it is required to read them at a fast glance, to react fast and appropriate. Currently this fast glancing reading is nog really possible for me unfortunately.I don’t mean to turn this post into a VR thread, but I have to say that, with a Quest 2, my MFDs in VR are crystal clear while “sitting back in the pit”. I think that’s because of my hardware (CPU, graphics card, fast memory). As I said earlier, I’m sure that as Falcon VR improves, more and more will be using it in the future.
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@Korbi said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@SoBad @I-Hawk Absolutely can confirm, what SoBad said.
I use 100% VR even though I have a complete 1:1 cockpit and was flying it with a 3x projector 220° screen before 4.37. It is unbeatable, except one big point unfortunately.This point is the read-ability of the MFD, I’m heavily annoyed by the fact I can barely read BE readouts etc. Even though I have a Pimax8K+ and a 4090 and very very good eyesight, there is no way I can read the text in the MFD without glancing forward.
But VR is simply so good that even this is not a blocker for me to use it.
I’m flying mainly A-A BVR in a virtual squadron, where for example BE readouts are very important to have a good tactical effect and most importantly it is required to read them at a fast glance, to react fast and appropriate. Currently this fast glancing reading is nog really possible for me unfortunately.Interesting what you guys say… I see Pimax 8K is also Fresnel lenses like G2. And @SoBad mentioning crystal clear MFDs with what should be an inferior headset, makes me really think. I’m at a point where I wonder if it would worth getting a Pico4 headset and sell the G2… The Fresnel sweet spot feels like a real problem to me, I mean it’s very blurred and if you will look at this vid:
The guy says something like: The 75% clear FOV of the Pico4 is unmatched compared to the 15% sweet spot FOV of the G2
This point sounds like a huge diff, even if the G2 sweet spot is generally sharper… I don’t know how much critical the difference is, but for sure the clearer picture in a much wider FOV sounds like a LOT better to me. I’m thinking seriously about getting a Pico4 just to try it, and then either give it up or sell the G2.
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Generally seems like we have an interesting picture up to now:
~75% of the community is using flat screen
~5% on a triple screen surround setup
~20% on VRKeep voting please
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@I-Hawk said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
Generally seems like we have an interesting picture up to now:
~75% of the community is using flat screen
~5% on a triple screen surround setup
~20% on VRKeep voting please
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
It is interesting to compare the screen res. of simmers vs. general players.
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Ticked the wide screen 3440 x 1440 for the Predator X34, but have recently upgraded to 3880 x 1600 Predator X38.
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Pretty hardcore VR guy here. Honestly got back into flight simming more a little before Covid and then despite lots of years with BMS and Falcon since 3.0, DCS was my primary sim because of VR support. I came back to BMS just because of the general performance and realism issues. When I did that I switched to a 4k 55" curved TV, then went back to my pre VR favorite of triple screens with the two more cheap 55" 4k flat TVs. This is almost as good as VR in my book, but very temperamental with BMS and took up lots of space.
VR BMS has been a dream of mine for a long time if you go back to some old threads. I’m so excited to have it, but I’m also become a bit of a believer that OpenXR would be the best way to go if a BMS team member is familiar enough to implement it. Not only does it seem to have a lot more options and performance, it would open up PointCTRL (which is amazing!), DFR, I think fixing Pimax FOV issues, and other things.
As it goes with VR, I have experience with Oculus CV1, HTC Vive, Pimax 5k pre BMS VR so I’m not going to speak to them. But I will tell you mostly you get what you pay for in resolution but more importantly Pixels Per Degree (PPD) in at least the screen sweet spot, like the HPs higher central PPD but lower to the edges. Lenses do come into play too with sweet spot with face positioning in the headset too. I but have noticed a clarity difference from each step up in PPD even though it may only be a small increase each time. So definitely my BMS experience: Rift S<Quest 2<Pimax 8kX<HP Reverb G2<Pimax Crystal (which I just got yesterday and the hype is real of its clarity)
But I can also see the “night fog” that happens with non-fresnel lenses in the Crystal, but I think it’s local dimming isn’t on in that and didn’t have a chance to fly at night in BMS yesterdaybtobsee how that effects it. The night fog has been reported with the Pico 4 too of course and probably a thing on the Quest Pro and other pancake lenses.
As a former wide screen guy for a lot of years, I do honestly miss the FOV of the 8K X. The Crystal FOV is better than the G2, but nowhere close to the 8K X. If it came down to the Reverb G2 and a fully BMS supported 8K X on “large FOV” setting, I would take the slight clarity hit to get the amazing FOV of the 8K X. But with the Crystal’s clarity, there is really no going back now.
For a basically all of 4.37, I have been chopping the bottom of my VR facial interfaces to mostly be able to use my home cockpit physical switches, MFDs, and ICP, but secondarily see my MFDs monitor occasionally for fine detail stuff like TGP work. I no longer need to see under the VR for MFD display with the Crystal. I think it might be clearer than my 55" 4K, which is a little too close for “retina” distance with its 80 PPI.
I will also throw out there I think there is a usage bias here too. As some who loves outside the cockpit work of BFM, landing pattern work, formation, and AAR, VR with its 1:1 head tracking and stereoscopic view is big for me. I think those that gravitate more to air to ground, instrument work, etc. that require more head down stuff will like the clarity that traditional monitors bring.
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@Snake122 said :
OpenXR would be the best way to go
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@I-Hawk
I have a Pico 4. Its FOV is amazing. Nearly all screen is “sweet spot”. Moreover, the periphery is clearer than the center because it has denser pixels. However, I cannot say the overall picture is clear. I cannot read MFDs easily. But I must say that I didn’t have a chance to try it with Virtual Desktop. I only used it with its Streaming Assistant. The people who use it with Virtual Desktop claim it is clear though. -
@TUAF-Ripper I don’t understand how this works (not just you, other headset users too). I run a rift S and can read MFDs just fine without leaning in. I tried a quest 2 last week and it was definitely better but the rift s is still good enough. The main thing with usb attached headsets is to up the encoding quality so that you reduce compression artefacts.
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@rubbra Yes, I think it is the main issue. Whether it has a display cable connection or not…
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In my case, exactly the same as SoBad.
4k monitor and VR 2160x2160, which I choose depending on the mission, if it’s a flight in own campaign, or in a squadron campaign flight, etc.
As for the VR, I have a Pico4, which already, because of the pancake optics and its high resolution, look very good, but with the latest version of VirtualDesktop, they look much better.
Although it’s off-topic (sorry), I’d wait for the Oculus 3, which I think should be out soon, to see if they deliver what they promise. -
@Fresco said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
Although it’s off-topic (sorry), I’d wait for the Oculus 3, which I think should be out soon, to see if they deliver what they promise.
‘Oculus’ is history. Meta Quest 3. Just FYI.
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@SoBad said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@SoBad said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk - Wish they had been checkboxes instead of option buttons. I use both VR & 4k monitor, about 50/50.
Yea I thought about it but actually I really wanted to get an idea about “Main usage” so only one for user, sorry. I guess your case is a bit special
BTW, if already opened that up, what makes the difference for you? Is it flight dependent? like “heavy MFDs” flights on screen with TIR, but lighter flights (e.g AA missions and DFs) in VR? Or is it something else? Really curious about that specifically, how do you choose and when?
My criterion is far more subjective than that. With the 4k monitor, I get far better graphics than VR. But with VR, the first thing I notice when I enter the pit is that I feel like I’m 10’ off the ground, looking over the edge of the pit to the concrete below. The sense of really being in the pit, the far more realistic head motion, the heightened immersion, if you will, compels me to use VR despite the lowered graphics. So it just depends on what mood I’m in-- high-end graphics or high-end immersion.
EDIT: One more thing-- VR is more labor intensive to use right now. Everything has to be done in just the right order to make VR work in this first draft of Falcon VR. Hopefully, it will get easier and better in future VR upgrades.
Sorry to stray off topic but what headset do you use? My vr setup is super simple. I’m looking at upgrading soon and wanted to make sure to stay away from anything with issues.
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@TUAF-Ripper said in Please choose your main display system when flying BMS:
@I-Hawk
I have a Pico 4. Its FOV is amazing. Nearly all screen is “sweet spot”. Moreover, the periphery is clearer than the center because it has denser pixels. However, I cannot say the overall picture is clear. I cannot read MFDs easily. But I must say that I didn’t have a chance to try it with Virtual Desktop. I only used it with its Streaming Assistant. The people who use it with Virtual Desktop claim it is clear though.I just ordered a Pico4 30 minutes ago
It was cheap enough IMHO (358$ with free shipment from Japan to Israel) so I took the risk LOL. In last days I got deeper into my VR experience like I never did before, including some heavy MFD work (TGP bombing), and now I feel simply like the G2 sweetspot is annoying, yes very sharp at the center, but very blurry as you go away from there, so I said let’s give Pancake lenses a go. Yes I understand it’ll probably be less sharp than the G2 center area, but I guess I can sacrifice that if the overall “clear area” will be much larger.If the Pico 4 won’t be good, I may consider selling both headsets and simply go back to screen + MFDs with TIR. But I have a feeling it’ll be fine. Yesterday I kind of had a deeper test on TGP operation and it was pretty much OK, not bad at all eventually. I don’t have a problem really with leaning towards the MFD when necessary for some deep work, but the overall blurry edges of the G2 is annoying for me. For example in a DF, it makes half of the flying to feel pretty blurry…
@Snake122 Thanx for your feedback! Pimax Crystal must be amazing! Pancake lenses and higher res. Will be interesting to see how VR headsets will develop along with the future GPUs that will be able to deliver even more performance.
In general, BMS itself has a LOT to improve WRT VR:
- We probably need to implement OpenXR at some point
- We probably will have to implement something like FSR/DLSS
- We will need to change the way we draw stuff to be smarter (e.g instancing of obejcts to reduce number of draw calls)
- Maybe also making the internal VR targets smarter, e.g like rendering into 1 target with instancing which will cut the number of draw calls by a half. The actual meaning is that instead of drawing everything twice, one time into each eye, we will draw everything once but to 2 sides of a single texture, with instancing (Which is like 1 draw call to the GPU but 2 (and can be more) renders with some different settings like different matrices etc)
These are pretty far goals, but such improvements will blast VR performance in BMS to new heights.