Not looking forward to the VR update
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would you all mind staying on topic here please?
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@TheChemistAstro said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@CriticalMass This criticism is would be better suited for an actual profit-driven professional development studio, not a volunteer driven and developed mod.
As mentioned in other areas of the forum, anyone is welcome to help out; the people have joined and help out with their technical ability which they could otherwise probably be paid decently for have the freedom to work on whatever beneficial addition they want to the mod.
Who’s criticising? Just asking a question. And I’ve tried to help the community where I can.
I have nothing but respect for the BMS team: I ask nothing of them other then make the sim the best it can be for as many people as possible. Not such a bad position I think.
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Guys before criticizing it… Try it.
Old setup will keep working as well, so you lose nothing with VR implementation. Quite the contrary, we had to fix a lot if bugs and improve performance to get it working.
Overall, I feel the dev team is quite excited about this release. No new terrain, that is still a bit far. But this next release opens some cool doors for the future.
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@CriticalMass said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@VO101_Tom said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@CriticalMass said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
How long will VR improvements take? Will development of other areas of BMS keep apace? It seems to me new shiny features for the minority are transplanting all other requests. This kind of happened with the last few releases and MP vs SP.
You can join BMS any time and work on stuff what you think its more important for the majority lol.
I’m pretty sure you just invented a progression path to BMS dev team. lol.
Actually it’s been pretty clear if you have desirable skills to the team AND can make the large commitment (the latter being more important actually), you pretty much volunteer like that. Also people’s passion projects within the team are usually indulged, and this VR addition was probably that. It probably did not mean a “shiny feature for the minority” that took away time from other development, that isn’t how the BMS team works. Anyone’s requests for the team to develop are just that, requests. Bug smashing they will do as necessary but a BMS feature request has to have multiple things such as enough documentation to make happen in a realistic manner, software engine support, and a coder(s) that wants to work on that. IFF is a perfect example of this. It was requested for a long time and it needed the proper documentation and coders.
@Seifer said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Guys before criticizing it… Try it.
Old setup will keep working as well, so you lose nothing with VR implementation. Quite the contrary, we had to fix a lot if bugs and improve performance to get it working.
Overall, I feel the dev team is quite excited about this release. No new terrain, that is still a bit far. But this next release opens some cool doors for the future.
I’ve apparently hit my upvote limit for the day, but will upvote this post tomorrow. Exactly that, VR support probably didn’t stop development on anything else. Good to hear that there are plenty of excellent things in 4.37!
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@Seifer said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Guys before criticizing it… Try it.
Old setup will keep working as well, so you lose nothing with VR implementation. Quite the contrary, we had to fix a lot if bugs and improve performance to get it working.
Overall, I feel the dev team is quite excited about this release. No new terrain, that is still a bit far. But this next release opens some cool doors for the future.
No, no critics. I’ll try it of course. But we have hot summers here. And springs, and automns. And right now, even winter is discouraging.
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@Atlas said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Is it just me that’s not looking forward to the VR update?
Don’t get me wrong, I like VR and I have a Reverb G2 and my eldest is still playing with the older HTC Vive, but I just can’t play for very long on VR. I also have checklists, printouts, and cheat sheets I need to refer to, which I doubt I can use with VR. I loved combat in Elite Dangerous in VR as you could really feel how cramped the cockpits were and how more agile smaller ships were compared to the big ones. I would do circuits over my local airport and do some exploration flights in XP11/MSFS too, but for the amount of cockpit work and kneeboard referencing needed, I don’t think I’ll appreciate VR.
A major concern I have is being able to tally bandits as well. Currently using a 4K monitor and TrackIR, but I’ve always felt like going to my G2 causes a drop in visual fidelity. Maybe increase the Smart Scaling to counter?
What I am keenly looking forward to, however, is the graphics/terrain upgrade. While I don’t “notice” the ground/terrain graphics, I guess my brain just tunes out how it looks so as not to kill immersion so much especially when I’m down low. A better-looking version would surely be appreciated.
Anyone else on the same boat as I am especially regarding VR? I would love to have the BMS implementation blow my socks off and I’d fully transition into VR, so I guess it’s a “let’s wait and see” scenario.
Hope everyone has had a lovely Christmas! Bring on the new year and bring on 4.37!!
I have totally different feeling and I am looking forward to this update since the dev team mentioned VR plans for the first time. The VR is a game changer. I am playing DCS, IL, MSFS and BMS. Both - VR and 2D. I was VR skeptical for a long time because of a low resolution, which BTW is now limited by PC performance and not goggles, until I took off in Hornet for the first time and couldn’t stop laughing for 15 minutes or so until I started feeling sick :). It took me like a month to overcome travel sickness symptoms when flying in VR. Since then I was dreaming on how would it be flying BMS in VR. Choose the F-16 block you want, have all kind of working weapons and TGPs, do not feel so lonely in the airspace with the ATC communicating with you correctly and not asking you for downwind landing. What I am also hoping to get from the BMS VR is the performance. With the BMS graphics being still pretty basic I hope to be able to set the resolution to max and have the MFDs and cockpit crisp while still having a lot of frames per sec. Will see how this will work but I keep my fingers crossed.
On the other hand I can understand the others, especially pit builders which may believe that VR is just a waste of time. I have been there too and I know how it feels when you are using the real switches, looking at real MFDs or having real warning lights in front of you (I gave up right on time when I realized how much I spent buying CNC machine, lathe, software and real switches just to build an ICP, MFDs and AoA indexers). But you will never know how it feels when you look back over your shoulder and see that big missile or bomb hanging underneath your wing. I will not mention the dogfighting when you feel that neck pain on the other day instead of eyeballs pain caused by the unnatural way the track ir is used. Or the air to air refueling and formation flying - it is totally different story in VR.
The mixed reality will be the right solution one day which will satisfy us all but let the developers team give us the basic VR first.
I really appreciate what they are doing right now and looking forward to 4.37. -
For those of us with so so setups, how cpu heavy is it to run the VR hardware? As well as buying the VR gear, will it require major PC upgrades compared to now with track ir? I’m currently getting good FPS with track IR and all the fruit turned way up.
Do we just don the headset, run the HOTAS and use the mouse as normal? (I don’t use the keyboard once in the pit). I’m excited, but it’s obviously a whole new thing to figure out!
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@Atlas - I’m not a fan of VR either…mainly because I have spent a LOT of time in RL aircraft cockpits and Trainers. Which is one of the reasons I’m building a cockpit of my own. No VR for me…
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@Snake122 I have a question sir, dont you have some stick you dont use?
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I can’t wait for VR for BMS to be honest. Having flown IL-2 in VR (HP Reverb G2), I just couldn’t go back to pancake mode in BMS again. There’s nothing like looking over your shoulder into the sun to see where that pesky Me109 went! Not to mention the depth perception is much more natural to me in VR than it is on a flat screen.
I’ve been sim racing (iRacing) exclusively in VR for the last 18+ months and I couldn’t do that on a monitor either - in VR, I can race door-to-door and nose-to-bumper and actually seeing how much space I really have left … you just can’t do that on a flat monitor.
As long as I can get a good working mouse cursor in BMS in VR, it’s all fine with me. When flying BMS with TrackIR, I don’t tend to use my keyboard a whole lot anyway - I either use the 1:1 bindings on my TM Cougar or I use the mouse to interact with different systems. Once BMS 4.37 is out, I’ll adapt my sim racing rig to also function as my main BMS cockpit with my TQS and FLCS mounted to either side of my (already tilted) bucket seat and my mouse+keyboard within easy reach. I’ll just need to remap my racing pedals to also act as my rudder pedals (as I’m not going to be swapping those for my CH pedals every time).
I can’t wait for 4.37 and VR!!
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@Stevie said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Atlas - I’m not a fan of VR either…mainly because I have spent a LOT of time in RL aircraft cockpits and Trainers. Which is one of the reasons I’m building a cockpit of my own. No VR for me…
I haven’t mentioned PointCtrl yet in this thread, but while I’ve made my cockpit be a little more physical for BMS when I transitioned back to it after DCS VR experience in 2020 basically. But PointCtrl and I’m sure other hand tracking with give those of us that don’t want to build cockpits or fly multiple aircraft types a near cockpit experience.
@lew0984 said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
For those of us with so so setups, how cpu heavy is it to run the VR hardware? As well as buying the VR gear, will it require major PC upgrades compared to now with track ir? I’m currently getting good FPS with track IR and all the fruit turned way up.
Do we just don the headset, run the HOTAS and use the mouse as normal? (I don’t use the keyboard once in the pit). I’m excited, but it’s obviously a whole new thing to figure out!
GPU is far more important in VR, hence why I have a 3090, but that was for DCS. It’s hard for me to judge exactly what BMS will need since I’ve been using bootstrap BMS VR methods, it could cut either way. But it definitely isn’t as bad as DCS.
@GhostDog-0 said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122 I have a question sir, dont you have some stick you dont use?
Not sure what you’re asking. I have an X65F as my force sensitive side stick, by far my most used. My center stick is a Virpil T-50CM2 base, VFX F-14, F/A-18, A-10, T-50CM grips. Main throttle is the X65F throttle. the X-56 throttle folds down for the rare times I need a helicopter collective, the rest of the time it’s a switch panel.
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I’m very excited for VR implementation. Got a rift S that I’m waiting to upgrade to a quest 2 or reverb g2 just for BMS. Know there are plenty of folks sitting on the sidelines waiting for VR to come to BMS, as well. Now I can tell them, oh yes it has VR support! Icing on the cake is that all the optimizations would benefit track ir and monitor! Now you can choose which way you want to play! Wow!
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I feel indifferent, but really looking forward to the other new features. To be fair I don’t own a VR headset.
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@Snake122 - I get to fly a RL Trainer with 360 visuals regularly…so I REALLY hate TIR, as it doesn’t allow me to move my head naturally and fully. And VR goggles would just get in the way of me seeing all of my real cockpit interior. I plan a 270 degree, full surround projection for my pit - and I’ve seen people do that, so I know it can be done. I’d also like to put a “roof” on my setup so I can look up…so probably four projectors.
…one more thing I want to do is use something like Google Glass as a real in-front-on-my-eye JHMCS reticle…very glad to see the new Alignment feature in the latest BMS Release, but they will have to come up with a way to fully de-couple TIR rom the OTW before I can do that. Or, I would have to find a way…
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@Stevie said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122 - I get to fly a RL Trainer with 360 visuals regularly…so I REALLY hate TIR, as it doesn’t allow me to move my head naturally and fully. And VR goggles would just get in the way of me seeing all of my real cockpit interior. I plan a 270 degree, full surround projection for my pit - and I’ve seen people do that, so I know it can be done. I’d also like to put a “roof” on my setup so I can look up…so probably four projectors.
…one more thing I want to do is use something like Google Glass as a real in-front-on-my-eye JHMCS reticle…very glad to see the new Alignment feature in the latest BMS Release, but they will have to come up with a way to fully de-couple TIR rom the OTW before I can do that. Or, I would have to find a way…
Yep, I remember your day job, at least as much as you share here. I really do get it, even with my not as cool day job but still understand what you are getting at. Just saying all of what you want would be achievable more easily and cheaper with a wide view VR XR headset
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@Snake122 - not given how much I’ve already spent on all those switches…alone!
I can’t tell anymore if I can build a pit because I can do my job, or vice-versa…
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@Stevie said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122 - not given how much I’ve already spent on all those switches…alone!
I can’t tell anymore if I can build a pit because I can do my job, or vice-versa…
Again, XR that this coming or even the physical cutout so I can do NVG style look under on my VR nowlet’s you use all those switches and solves all you display headaches, unless you have already sunk the money into the displays. Even then you aren’t fixing your lift vector view or your HMCS issue as easily…
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@Snake122 - thought about that too…still don’t want it.
I had an Intern a couple summers ago that had spent a semester working on a college VR project…part of what I do is to give Interns and other Engineers instruction in the RL Trainer. We got in, she started the jet, released the Parking Brake, taxied into position, and slammed into burner - as soon as she rotated for takeoff and pulled the gear up the first thing I heard over the ICS was - “this SOOOO beats VR!!!”.
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@Stevie said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122 - thought about that too…still don’t want it.
I had an Intern a couple summers ago that had spent a semester working on a college VR project…part of what I do is to give Interns and other Engineers instruction in the RL Trainer. We got in, she started the jet, released the Parking Brake, taxied into position, and slammed into burner - as soon as she rotated for takeoff and pulled the gear up the first thing I heard over the ICS was - “this SOOOO beats VR!!!”.
I bet she would say “this SOOOO beats the RL Trainer” if you give her a ride in a real jet.
The RL Trainer doesn’t sound like an affordable alternative for VR. Even the home pit is not an option for many players.
I did a brutal simple mod of my Cougar throttle. It has a real deal travel angle and lever arm radius. I was really surprised when I set it on the Ikea baby stool next to my chair and I found out that it was on spot in DCS VR.
You guys will be fine. Or just keep flying in 2D.
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I just can’t understand how someone can complain about a feature that may not be for them, but at the same time doesn’t take anything away from them, just gives some “other” guys an extra fun. It’s just wrong to demand all dev’s attention, time and effort for themselves, and themselves only (especially if the devs are working on it in their spare time, for free, and they wanted this feature too).