4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off
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@VO101_Tom said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Hi guys,
yes, this is a known issue with every 3D game, especially with simulators, where the scaling is important. The adjustable IPD (Inter-Pupillary Distance) is the key. Possible the program can read out the IPD value from the VR googles, but that is usually wrong (this issue appeared with DCS VR and with Cliffs of Dover VR too).
Need two extra keyboard key for IPD increase and decrease and a new conf.ini line for changeable default value.
Changing the FOV is not the solution here, that do different thing, and not to mention changing the FOV will distort the perspective view too. VR zoom will be always weird, but that is OK, there is no better solution for that.
And obviously this is not a 3D model issue either, so nobody should touch anything 3D related.
Yes. Exactly. I remember being able to set scale in some app and felt the effect physically on the way my eyes behaved. Pretty much the same thing with MSFS2020 with its cockpit windows.
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@LorikEolmin Yepp, this is basically a vr goggle issue, the default IPD value is not suitable for everyone, and even if the lens distance changeable, and the IPD value can be read out from the goggles, many players reported that their custom settings is much better than the default settings.
Perhaps other programs use different name for the same settings, âworld scalingâ also correct, but the difference will be noticeable only in the cockpits anyway.
The good news that the fix is usually quick (I am not a coder though), but our coder in Cliffsâ came up with the solution very quickly.
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The viper pit in VR maybe is 90 percent my perceived actual size which is absolutely fine to me. Iâm more curious what should be the distance between the MFDs and my head? Because in VR it looks like the MFDs are below the knees? Someone who sat in an actual cockpit might know?
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@spotdott Iâve sat in the real jet several times, and yes the MFDs are beyond your knees.
Pic to illustrate.
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@chihirobelmo said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Indeed I had such an option in the code while developing VR but removed it as I thought forcing general logic should give everyone the correct scaleâŚwhich was not,
If you are looking at OpenXR/Open Composite integration the OpenXR Toolkit has the option for World Scale built in⌠You can change it on the fly, along with a LOT of other VR settings, love it.
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@SOBO-87 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@spotdott Iâve sat in the real jet several times, and yes the MFDs are beyond your knees.
Pic to illustrate.
In 4.37 VR with Quest 2 see the MFDs just above my ankles, not my knees, and the pilot legs at the same height of my belly button
I think something is weird, not a showstopper (I love falcon in VR!) But I hope it can be fixed
Best regards
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Guys,
Just saying, I realized people saying the cockpit feels âsmallâ that could be interpreted either way. To me with the Pimax 8k X having parallel projections checked, the cockpit feels âsmallâ in the sense that everything is too close to me, making everything bigger than normal (ICP, HUD) but smaller distances involved. I didnât realize that we could be describing the same thing, so please give a little bit more of a descriptor there if you could in more physical reference.
I would say from sitting in the real F-16 and cockpit trainer multiple times, it is one of the smaller fighter jets out there and everything feels tight, close, but accessable. The F-15 on the other hand has the reputation to feel very roomy and spacious like âan old Cadillac,â partly due to the nose diameter with itâs large radar dish. Unfortunately, this is one of those things that doesnât always translate as well until you sit in them for real.
@Caldero said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@SOBO-87 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@spotdott Iâve sat in the real jet several times, and yes the MFDs are beyond your knees.
Pic to illustrate.
In 4.37 VR with Quest 2 see the MFDs just above my ankles, not my knees, and the pilot legs at the same height of my belly button
I think something is weird, not a showstopper (I love falcon in VR!) But I hope it can be fixed
Best regards
Just saying, your actual body or the VR pilot body? It matters because RL F-16 seat is much different position than an office chair.
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@Snake122 I know you asked Caldero, but I started this thread so forgive my intrusion.
The VR legs are at the real worldâs bellybutton level. It feels as if the pilot in BMS was petite. But is the overall cabin that feels a tad too small in scale.
Like the flight control looks smaller than the replica I have to control it.I donât have that feeling in other VR simulations.
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@Snake122 Very good call!!
What I mean with small in that case is the opposite you have described.
Seatingposition and headposition feels correct and good, but the cockpit is pretty tiny. So every component is to small/to far away.The refference I use to compare the BMS cockpit in VR to is a very acurately built 1:1 homecockpit with a lot of real components, Iâm sitting in dozens of hours per month.
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@Snake122 Hi, I think the root of this issue that the eye distance of the users are different, and the depth perception, the scale of the surrounding world is strongly connected to this exact distance. How their brain learned and used this view difference before. If you put a VR goggle on a user, and the two small display show them pictures generated from a different distance, your brain will process that pictures as a different scaling than usual. This is why you will get different opinions and different results if you ask the users, because everyone perceives their surroundings slightly differently, someone will see the 4.37 cockpits in perfect size, someone will feel smaller.
This is what the IPD (Inter-Pupillary Distance) settings intended to solve in all VR games (distance between the VR left and right camera viewpoints). This value should be changeable by users.
This is independent from camera center position, if someone feel that camera is not in the good position, lower or further back than it should, or how big the pilot model is. Then you will see the cockpit from a different spot, but the scaling would be still OK. The camera position will not affect the IPD issue at all.
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@Snake122 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Guys,
Just saying, I realized people saying the cockpit feels âsmallâ that could be interpreted either way. To me with the Pimax 8k X having parallel projections checked, the cockpit feels âsmallâ in the sense that everything is too close to me, making everything bigger than normal (ICP, HUD) but smaller distances involved. I didnât realize that we could be describing the same thing, so please give a little bit more of a descriptor there if you could in more physical reference.
I would say from sitting in the real F-16 and cockpit trainer multiple times, it is one of the smaller fighter jets out there and everything feels tight, close, but accessable. The F-15 on the other hand has the reputation to feel very roomy and spacious like âan old Cadillac,â partly due to the nose diameter with itâs large radar dish. Unfortunately, this is one of those things that doesnât always translate as well until you sit in them for real.
@Caldero said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@SOBO-87 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@spotdott Iâve sat in the real jet several times, and yes the MFDs are beyond your knees.
Pic to illustrate.
In 4.37 VR with Quest 2 see the MFDs just above my ankles, not my knees, and the pilot legs at the same height of my belly button
I think something is weird, not a showstopper (I love falcon in VR!) But I hope it can be fixed
Best regards
Just saying, your actual body or the VR pilot body? It matters because RL F-16 seat is much different position than an office chair.
Sorry I didnât explained well, I mean:
In 4.37 VR with Quest 2 I see the VR MFDs just above the VR pilot ankles, not above his knees, and the VR pilot legs at the same height of my real body belly button (but the VR pilot eyes at the same height of my real body eyes)
I fly on a chair with the backrest not vertical but 30 degrees aft
I think the cockpit in VR is very tiny
Best regards
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@VO101_Tom said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@Snake122 Hi, I think the root of this issue that the eye distance of the users are different, and the depth perception, the scale of the surrounding world is strongly connected to this exact distance. How their brain learned and used this view difference before. If you put a VR goggle on a user, and the two small display show them pictures generated from a different distance, your brain will process that pictures as a different scaling than usual. This is why you will get different opinions and different results if you ask the users, because everyone perceives their surroundings slightly differently, someone will see the 4.37 cockpits in perfect size, someone will feel smaller.
This is what the IPD (Inter-Pupillary Distance) settings intended to solve in all VR games (distance between the VR left and right camera viewpoints). This value should be changeable by users.
This is independent from camera center position, if someone feel that camera is not in the good position, lower or further back than it should, or how big the pilot model is. Then you will see the cockpit from a different spot, but the scaling would be still OK. The camera position will not affect the IPD issue at all.
Thatâs not my case. I have tried that already and it doesnât change anything (other than seeing things double or blurry). Also, the dimensions behaviour changes from plane to plane, as I explained in the first post.
And I havenât had this feeling in other VR cockpits (Elite, DCS, VTOLVR) -
@Ferde at the moment you could not have tried that, as BMS doesnât allow the IPD to be changed by the user. We are not talking IPD of the HMD itself.
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@Korbi Ah, OK, I thought it was about the HMD one. Sorry.
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@Caldero yes my mistake, the MFDs indeed look like they are just above the ankles.
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@Ferde said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@Korbi Ah, OK, I thought it was about the HMD one. Sorry.
Our experience in Cliffs, and I know the DCS also had the same issue that the IPD value provided by VR goggles are useless. Donât ask why, but the vast majority of VR users reported that the IPD customisation by users was the real solution. Perhaps the code donât even care much of VR goggle settings? I wouldnât be surprised if this would be the caseâŚ
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Guys.
Several things going on here. For starters the seating position in the F-16 is something more akin to a racing car rather than a more conventional aircraft seating position. Unless youâre sitting in an 1:1 F-16 pit the feet will very likely feel very high. This is normal.
Secondly your world scale probably needs adjusting, this is essentially tuning the distance between your virtual eyes to match your real ones. You can adjust this in SteamVR, firstly add BMS to steam, I added the the BMS exe within bin/x64 in the root directory of BMS. This seems to work fine. Once in the cockpit, open up the steam VR overlay with your VR controller, select adjust video settings. Select per app profile and select BMS. Scroll down to override world scale, and you can scale the world up or down there until it feels right to you. NOTE: World scale changes donât work until you jump out of 3D and back into the cockpit. So make an adjustment in cockpit, end flight, and then re-commit to see what changes it makes.
Hope that helps!
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Question: without IPD setting do DCS and BMS F-16pit looks same scale to you guys?
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@SOBO-87 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Guys.
Several things going on here. For starters the seating position in the F-16 is something more akin to a racing car rather than a more conventional aircraft seating position. Unless youâre sitting in an 1:1 F-16 pit the feet will very likely feel very high. This is normal.
Secondly your world scale probably needs adjusting, this is essentially tuning the distance between your virtual eyes to match your real ones. You can adjust this in SteamVR, firstly add BMS to steam, I added the the BMS exe within bin/x64 in the root directory of BMS. This seems to work fine. Once in the cockpit, open up the steam VR overlay with your VR controller, select adjust video settings. Select per app profile and select BMS. Scroll down to override world scale, and you can scale the world up or down there until it feels right to you. NOTE: World scale changes donât work until you jump out of 3D and back into the cockpit. So make an adjustment in cockpit, end flight, and then re-commit to see what changes it makes.
Hope that helps!
Added the exe in root, added in steam as a non-steam game.
Tried launching from steam, CTD after load screen.
Launched from exe, doesnât appear in the app list. -
@SOBO-87 I will try that, thank you. Can I use the steamoverlay without vr controllers too? I only have the HMD itself.