Chaff/flare loadout
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Believe it or not, most threats are radar guided, rather than IR. So if you’re under attack by a radar missile, then flares will do absolutely nothing for you. Chaff and good maneuvering are the key with that type of threat. In converse, the same with goes for IR, chaff is useless, but you’re typically only going to run into that down low and during BFM/ACM.
You need to choose the right profile for what you’re up against. Mixed defense profiles are good for general employment, but when you have something specific chasing your tail feathers down, choose the right profile, flare only, or chaff only. I think you’ll find that you have more than adequate flare for every mission.
FWIW, USAF F-16s have been updated and carry a good deal more flare than the default BMS numbers, which is why in our custom theater the acdata has been modified to reflect this change in real life. Rybo (Flogger) can definitely give you more info in this area.
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Just curious. Why do you need so many chaffs? I always have enough chaff, but flares are always short. I would prefer 40/60% split between chaff and flare. Long range radar missiles are easy to avoid without chaff, only the short range IR missiles are problematic.
Yes, it is clear from what you wrote that you know chaffs are for radar guided threats, and flares for IR, don’t get mad for it
Interesting info Redshift, thanks.
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Just curious. Why do you need so many chaffs? I always have enough chaff, but flares are always short. I would prefer 40/60% split between chaff and flare. Long range radar missiles are easy to avoid without chaff, only the short range IR missiles are problematic.
Pandacat, what Redshirt said . As you can tell from my signature I like DEAD, and in that scenario I use lot of chaff, especially as I try to attack from medium altitude( ie: above MANPAD range). There’s also the issue, especially at night, of trying to avoid showing the BadGuys where I am.
My flare usage is for AA IR threats, and I’ll launch a few when I do attack from low level. For that I have CMS left programmed to launch one flare per CMS left. I think 25/75 flare/chaff is better for me, although if I start running out of flares your ratio sounds quite logical.
BTW, Rybo, please refresh my memory-acdata is in which folder? -
Acdata is in the acdata folder trololo :mrgreen:
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In converse, the same with goes for IR, chaff is useless
In BMS yes. IRL, not necessary true in all cases (depending on missile … and prox fuse.)
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prox fuse
Very interesting, so with that type of fusing, if it flies through the foil, then it thinks it hit something and kablooey! Learn something everyday
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Very interesting, so with that type of fusing, if it flies through the foil, then it thinks it hit something and kablooey! Learn something everyday
Wow, I’m imagining, maybe wrongly, an aircraft dropping chaffs and flying straight to make sure the missile hits the chaffs on its way :D. Actually I suppose it’s more a matter of luck than measured risk in that case.
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Wow, I’m imagining, maybe wrongly, an aircraft dropping chaffs and flying straight to make sure the missile hits the chaffs on its way :D. Actually I suppose it’s more a matter of luck than measured risk in that case.
I’ve always had the mindset(perhaps incorrect), that especially when using my multi sequence Slap program, I’m changing direction with each sequence.
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I’ve always heard - “you have to dogfight the missile”…so - make sure it’s tracking, change direction and dispense. Repeat until the second one gets you.
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the best choice is always not to close past MAR, esp. in falcon where missiles are capable of occasionally hitting targets.
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Can anybody comment on newer flare systems? I’m remembering a video I watched recently with Super hornets and growlers with a forward shooting flare?
5:15 for anybody interested
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Sorry, Hyge, I’ve not heard about that.
Meanwhile, I just experimented with changing expendables loadout. As previously mentioned, you want to go to acdata
The path is 4.33u1>Data>Sim>acdata then scroll down to your particular jet, in my case the f18c.Then scroll about 2/3 the way down to chaff/flare.
On my first try I simply changed the totals from 60/60 to 90/30 c/f. That had no effect in BMS.
So, I then tried turning flare1 to chaff 3, as entered right now…
hasEWS 1
ecmStrength 0.000
nChaff 90
nFlare 30
FlareDispensers 1
FlareSeq 0
FlarePos1 1.45 -2.46 2.86
FlareVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount1 30
ChaffPos3 -2.50 -2.40 2.86
ChaffVec3 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount3 30
ChaffDispensers 3
ChaffSeq 0
ChaffPos1 1.45 2.46 2.86
ChaffVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount1 30
ChaffPos2 -2.50 2.40 2.86
ChaffVec2 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount2 30Unfortunately, that had no effect , either.
Any tips? -
Can anybody comment on newer flare systems?
I think President-S is one of the most advanced nowdays, and surly future systems will use this technic moving away from just flares.
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I think President-S is on of the most advanced nowdays, and surly future systems will use this technic moving away from just flares.
It seems to drive the missile nuts.
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Sorry, Hyge, I’ve not heard about that.
Meanwhile, I just experimented with changing expendables loadout. As previously mentioned, you want to go to acdata
The path is 4.33u1>Data>Sim>acdata then scroll down to your particular jet, in my case the f18c.Then scroll about 2/3 the way down to chaff/flare.
On my first try I simply changed the totals from 60/60 to 90/30 c/f. That had no effect in BMS.
So, I then tried turning flare1 to chaff 3, as entered right now…
hasEWS 1
ecmStrength 0.000
nChaff 90
nFlare 30
FlareDispensers 1
FlareSeq 0
FlarePos1 1.45 -2.46 2.86
FlareVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount1 30
ChaffPos3 -2.50 -2.40 2.86
ChaffVec3 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount3 30
ChaffDispensers 3
ChaffSeq 0
ChaffPos1 1.45 2.46 2.86
ChaffVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount1 30
ChaffPos2 -2.50 2.40 2.86
ChaffVec2 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount2 30Unfortunately, that had no effect , either.
Any tips?Try this instead:
hasEWS 1
ecmStrength 0.000
nChaff 90
nFlare 30
FlareDispensers 1
FlareSeq 0
FlarePos1 1.45 -2.46 2.86
FlareVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount1 30
ChaffDispensers 2
ChaffSeq 0
ChaffPos1 1.45 2.46 2.86
ChaffVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount1 45
ChaffPos2 -2.50 2.40 2.86
ChaffVec2 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount2 45 -
Good evening, All,
Is there a way to change the chaff/flare loadout, in order to have 90 chaff and 30 flares?
I looked in my config settings and saw the EWS programs, bingo, and such, but not the totals.Also keep in mind that what you are asking for is completely un-realistic to the blocks of F-16s simulated by BMS other than CFT loaded birds. If you wanted 90 chaff on the real block 25-52 minus CFT birds you would get zero flares.
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Also keep in mind that what you are asking for is completely un-realistic to the blocks of F-16s simulated by BMS other than CFT loaded birds. If you wanted 90 chaff on the real block 25-52 minus CFT birds you would get zero flares.
Are the ALE-50 pylons used on USAF F-16CJ weasels and if so do they not have extra chaff buckets like PIDS pylons on MLUs? I think this maybe the extra capability Redshift is eluding to.
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Also keep in mind that what you are asking for is completely un-realistic to the blocks of F-16s simulated by BMS other than CFT loaded birds. If you wanted 90 chaff on the real block 25-52 minus CFT birds you would get zero flares.
Stubbies, at the moment I’m working on the Hornet C, which does have 120 expendables. However, I am under the impression the the Viper CJ does have a fourth bucket and 120 expendables, as well. Is that not correct? I’ve been looking around the 'net, haven’t found any specifics as yet. I did read in Viper Pilot that the CJ had more expendable capacity.
It’s an interesting question for me, since when I get the Hornet sorted out I will be trying to get the Block 52 Viper to CJ standards, less of course the ALE-50, which as has been discussed elsewhere is not to be modelled in BMS
Update: I found this: http://www.usaf-sig.org/index.php/reference/114-research-material/82-f-16-viper-faq-stuff-you-wanted-to-know-about-the-f-16cd
that does show 4 chaff/flare buckets